Three young children, including two young babies, have caught measles this week from an unvaccinated child, according to WA Health’s Virus Watch.

They were exposed to the virus at Rockingham General Hospital’s Emergency Department mid-January after a child of a non-vaccinating family presented with the deadly disease.

According to WA Health’s Virus Watch publication on January 29, two cases of mumps were also detected in adults, with one acquired locally and the other in Indonesia.

Measles is a highly contagious viral infection transmitted via respiratory aerosols that remain a risk to others for up to two hours after the person has left the area. The incubation period is about 10 days (range seven to 18 days) to the onset of prodromal symptoms and about 14 days to the appearance of the rash. The illness is characterised by cough, coryza, conjunctivitis, a descending morbilliform rash, and fever present at the time of rash onset. The infectious period is from five days before the appearance of the rash to four days after the appearance of the rash.

According to a WA State Government report released last year, most of Perth’s metropolitan area fell below the current national average of 91.3% for fully vaccinated 2-year-olds.

Some of the lowest vaccination rates for children under 5 were found to be in Cottesloe, Claremont, Fremantle and Mundaring while regionally, Augusta, Margaret River, Busselton and Manjimup were also behind the state’s average.

That said, the number of pregnant mothers receiving whooping cough vaccinations in WA has risen to 70%, after the introduction of the free booster program established after the death of newborn baby Riley Hughes in 2015.

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671 Comments

    • Please learn the difference between adverse events and side effects. They aren’t at all the same thing.

    • One wonders why the source of your anti-vaccine meme cut off this portion from the actual Merck vaccine insert (see p. 6, (1)):

      The following adverse reactions are listed in decreasing order of severity, without regard to causality, within each body system category and have been reported during clinical trials, with use of the marketed vaccine, or with use of monovalent or bivalent vaccine containing measles, mumps, or rubella [emphasis supplied]

      I would draw readers’ attention to the phrase “without regard to causality” and “reported during clinical trials” because (a) every event, including walking into a door frame, must be recorded and reported during clinical trials, and (b) this is done whether its likely to be related or not. Vaccine inserts are also legal documents rather than scientific ones, similar to warnings that one should “remove turkey from bag before placing in oven.”

      It’s also somewhat amusing/pathetic that the same sources reject all other material information from the manufacturers, including references to the large body of independent worldwide research over decades indicating the safety and efficacy of vaccines. Compared to the risks of the diseases vaccines are designed to prevent, there is no comparison.

      (1) http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.merck.com%2Fproduct%2Fusa%2Fpi_circulars%2Fm%2Fmmr_ii%2Fmmr_ii_pi.pdf%3Asc_0xDTfx6HjdEdWEGAYnHyyRYU&cuid=3162385

    • How do those adverse events compare to the adverse events from measles, mumps and rubella?

      If vaccines are as dangerous as you say, why do you need to provide false information (adverse events =/= side effects) to prove it?

    • Mike Stevens Reply

      Hello brand new Disqus poster!
      I wonder whose antivaccine sock puppet you are?

  1. Jane Jones Reply

    Measles is not a deadly disease! It is a common childhood virus that very rarely causes any problems. Fear mongering is what this article is doing! Pure nonsense!!! What is criminal is the fact that they are pushing dangerous and unneccessary vaccines on pregnant women! None of these vaccines have been safety studied for use on pregnant women—read the insert -it says so right on it! Years ago they never would vaccinate a pregnant woman because it was not safe for the fetus–nothing has changed there! Protect your babies because the CDC and Drs. no longer are!!!

  2. I’m confused … how can unvaccinated children give measles to the vaccinated if the whole purpose of getting vaccinated is so that you don’t contract the disease in the first place? Looks more to me like the vaccinated are getting it from the same thing that is supposed to prevent the disease: vaccines.

    • AutismDadd Reply

      That’s the battleground. Fake News and Fake Science and fear mongering are vaccine marketing.

      • Jonathan Graham Reply

        Fake News and Fake Science and fear mongering are vaccine marketing.

        I think you have a problem with “fake thinking”.

        • This stock photo of the baby with measles is fake, it’s a shopped picture you smacked ass retarded jerk off. Vaccines are poison for the dumb sheeple.

      • So
        you think vaccinating kids is a good thing that means you approve of having kids
        injected with horse blood, rabbit brain,dog kidney,monkey kidney, chick
        embryo,chicken egg protein, duck egg, pigs blood, calf and fetal bovine serum,
        tissue from aborted fetuses and the DNA that it contains, aluminum, thimerosol (
        a form of mercury ), squaline,( which has not been approved by the FDA and is
        the leading cause of Gulf War Syndrome), peanut oil, glycerin, MSG, phenol,
        polysorbate 80, streptomycin, formaldehyde, sodium borate,canine kidney cells,
        oh last but not least Simian Virus 40 which contaminated the original polio
        vaccine. Simian Virus 40 is a cancer causing virus and that was the 40th virus
        they found in that vaccine! Most cancerous brain tumors are caused by SV40. That
        virus is now part of our genome and there’s no way to get rid of it! If there are no problems associated with vaccines, then why did
        Congress pass the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986? The reason is
        because Pharmaceutical companies were being sued so much, because of all the
        deaths and injuries caused by vaccines, that they would have to stop making
        vaccines so they “convinced ( bribed ) Congress into passing a law whereby the
        government accepts the liability! One of my best friends was a practicing
        microbiologist for 32 years and he admitted that our bodies don’t just produce
        antibodies against the viruses in the vaccine but also the ingredients in the
        vaccine. Gee I wonder where all the allergies are coming from? The greatest
        killer of pre-teens is leukemia I wonder what causes that?

        • The fact that kids are living to pre-teen age more often?

          Appeal to disgust won’t work and it’s not that I approve or disapprove – it’s that I don’t care. Unless of course you have evidence that I should?

        • Jonathan Graham Reply

          is the leading cause of Gulf War Syndrome

          Actually anti-vaccine scientists like Shaw say it’s aluminum.

          peanut oil,

          Never used in any vaccine except for testing

          That virus is now part of our genome

          Oh? Where is it on the human genome? I’m sure you can point out it’s position since you know this to be an absolute and unquestionable fact.

          One of my best friends was a practicing microbiologist for 32 years and he admitted that our bodies don’t just produce antibodies against the viruses in the vaccine but also the ingredients in the vaccine.

          So people develop antibodies against all those things you claim are harmful? In other words they are more resistant to aluminum intake than you are?

          Gee I wonder where all the allergies are coming from?

          If they’re coming from vaccines then we shouldn’t be seeing the progress we are in reversing them.

          he greatest
          killer of pre-teens is leukemia I wonder what causes that?

          So again you’re claiming it’s caused by vaccines yet between 1960 and 1980 the survival rate for children went up dramatically.

          • ”Actually anti-vaccine scientists like Shaw say it’s aluminum.peanut oil,” I’m sure these substances might have contributed to Gulf War Syndrome. The developing of antibodies against squalene ( which is naturally occurring in our bodies ) leads to an autoimmune disease when those antibodies begin attacking our own squalene.

          • Proponent

            Ron Roy: “I’m sure these substances might have contributed to Gulf War Syndrome.”

            Welp.. I am convinced.

            An anonymous person on the internet named Ron Roy has a ‘hunch’..

          • Jonathan Graham

            I’m sure these substances might have contributed to Gulf War Syndrome

            Shaw says you’re wrong. It’s aluminum – he did tests that, if you read Vaccine Papers prove it. What about all the cred you give these BRAVE BRAVE SCIENTISTS? It only goes until they disagree with you.

          • FDA to approve flu shot containing squalene which has been shown to cause severe autoimmune disorders

            Paul Fassa
            Natural Blaze
            Mon, 12 Oct 2015 00:00 UTC

            The FDA has granted fast track approval for Swiss based Novartis’s flu shot that contains squalene as an adjuvant to boost what they consider an immune response.

            Fast track approval is normally reserved for crucial emergencies during
            vaccine shortages. You might be aware that there is no shortage of flu
            vaccines and most hyped flu epidemics are bogus.

            But what they call an immune response is mostly a localized cytokine
            response to toxic adjuvants and preservatives. But the process of
            creating a cellular memory to defend against future viral attacks is
            usually bypassed by vaccinating.

            That’s why getting a viral disease and recovering or even being
            exposed to one without falling ill grants lifetime immunity, and that’s
            how true “herd immunity” can occur.

            Squalene was used for troop anthrax vaccinations during the Gulf
            War and has been associated with Gulf War Syndrome that affected
            thousands of American soldiers during the Gulf War, many of whom died
            from that alone, exceeding combat fatalities.

            The squalene paradox is that squalene oil appears naturally in our
            bodies to help manufacture vitamin D and is enhanced by some
            poly-unsaturated fats such as olive oil. But injecting the synthetic
            squalene is a different matter.

            Squalene by injection causes the body to create an antibody response without boundaries. It’s called a cytokine storm.

            The antibodies gather and attack all the body’s natural squalene,
            creating autoimmune diseases ranging from rheumatism to partial or
            complete paralysis and even death. This outcome was common during the 1976 national fake swine flu epidemic that spawned a very strong vaccination push.

            Even President Ford rolled up his sleeve on live TV nationally. Not sure what was in the syringe though.

            The lawsuits from so many deaths and Gillian Barre’ Syndrome (GBS)
            episodes from that vaccination push spurred legislation to indemnify
            vaccine makers from being sued, leading to the current National Vaccine
            Injury Compensation Program (NVICP), a no-fault alternative to the
            traditional tort system for resolving vaccine injury claims, which the
            U.S. Court of Federal Claims decides for whom to award financial
            compensation.

            Immediate Squalene in Vaccine Concerns

            No one should take the swine flu vaccine – it is one of the most
            dangerous vaccines ever devised. It contains an immune adjuvant called
            squalene (MF-59) which has been shown to cause severe autoimmune
            disorders such as MS, rheumatoid arthritis and Lupus. This is
            the vaccine adjuvant that is strongly linked to the Gulf War syndrome,
            which killed over 10,000 soldiers and caused a 200% increase in the
            fatal disease ALS (Lou Gehreg disease). – Dr. Russell Blaylock

          • The non-profit National Vaccine Information Center
            (NVIC) is questioning the basis for the fast tracked licensure by the
            U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) of a squalene-adjuvanted
            influenza vaccine for use in seniors over age 65. The Novartis MF59
            adjuvanted Fluad vaccine was approved for accelerated licensure by the
            FDA Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC)
            on Sept. 15, 2015 primarily using limited immunogenicity and safety
            evidence from a small clinical trial in which only about 1,000 healthy
            Americans over age 65 were given the adjuvanted vaccine
            2. Since Gulf War I, the military has been secretly putting an oil-based adjuvant called SQUALENE into certain experimental lots of military vaccines. Just like lab animals, thousands of soldiers given SQUALENE- laced vaccines have developed disabling auto-immune diseases. Independent researchers have found SQUALENE antibodies in these sick soldiers. In 2005, the military admitted that 1,200 military personnel who received anthrax vaccine before going to Iraq recently developed serious illnesses, including memory loss and chronic fatigue.

          • shay simmons

            Do you ever read your hysterical (plagiarized) diatribes?

          • Jonathan Graham

            Looks like your post was deleted Ron. But again Shaw says you are wrong. His tests were entirely about aluminum. Nothing else. How could they be strongly conclusive but the cause actually be squaline? Why don’t you believe the brave brave brave scientists. How dare you not! 🙂

            Also why were you including peanut oil when it’s not used?

            Also the gulf war was in the 1990 so they would have used the AVA vaccine which has alhydrogel not squalene.

            Have you said anything that could remotely qualify as correct Ron?

          • MILITARYCORRUPTION.COMTM
            Fighting
            for the truth . . . exposing the corrupt
            SQUALENE CONFIRMED IN ANTHRAX VACCINE AFTER NUMEROUS

            PENTAGON DENIALS

            Representative Jack Metcalf of the State of Washington revealed in a report

            Thursday that the FDA found squalene in the anthrax vaccine being forced upon

            the U.S. military on pain of court martial and/or dishonorable discharge.

            The FDA confirmed the presence of squalene in the anthrax vaccine by using

            a more sensitive test than one used by the Pentagon. Squalene is NOT an FDA-approved

            substance and its consequences on health are unknown. As a vaccine booster ingredient,

            it is thought to increase immunity, but its use has been denied time and again

            by the Pentagon. Congressman Metcalf again called on the Pentagon to immediately

            HALT the anthrax vaccine program until the squalene source is identified and

            its health consequences studied.

            The revelation on squalene more clearly establishes that the Pentagon may be

            conducting “medical experiments” on service members. Other Congressional hearings

            have already established that the Pentagon conducted de facto experiments because

            it avoided organization-level FDA review before changing the way the vaccine

            is used and administered.

            The exodus of hundreds of military members, including many officers and skilled

            pilots, over the vaccine demonstrates the gravity of this issue as it relates

            to Pentagon “integrity” and the overall national defense capability. Young people

            thinking of joining the military may decline a tour or career when faced with

            such questionable and risky employment treatment. The recruiting impacts of

            this issue are highlighted by House and Senate Armed Services Committee testimony

            that the military may need up to 50,000 more members to meet current global

            obligations.

            More information on the anthrax vaccine policy will be made at the Service

            Member Support rally in Philadelphia this Saturday, Sept 30th at noon, the Widener

            Building, One South Penn Square.

            The “NO ABUSE” organization was established out of concern that the

            Department of Defense (DOD) mandatory anthrax vaccine policy represents another

            episode in a legacy of questionable and often harmful medical practices. Many

            service member relatives, as well as military, medical, legal, and policy experts

            assisted the House Government Reform Oversight and other Congressional Committees

            as they investigated the anthrax vaccine in nearly a dozen hearings during the

            past 18 months. These citizens determined a formal organization was necessary

            to address the anthrax vaccine, the planned DOD Joint Vaccine Acquisition Program

            (JVAP), and other related military health matters on a long-term proactive basis.

            The NO ABUSE (a non-profit organization) address is:

            P.O. Box 70186,

            Washington, D.C. 20024-0186,

            Redmond H. Handy, President.

            His Email address is: [email protected]

            and

            the Phone/fax is (202) 554-4477 ext.5993.

            Comments

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            | Technical

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            All

            Web Page Designs

            Copyright©2000 by: M. Byron Norrell, Jr.

            All Rights Reserved® 2000

            All Written Material

            Copyright©2000 by:

            MilitatryCorruption.Com, Inc.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Wow, random internet source asserts without any supporting information that there is squalene in something.

            Also you were too lazy to remove the HTML footer eh?

          • FallsAngel

            This new meme, “brave” is very silly.

          • Jonathan Graham

            The minds of vaccine critical folk are weirdly segmented. On one side they seem to be able to claim that there is some bogeyman out there waiting to shut down anti-vaccine doctors and take away their licences. Yet they see no conflict with being able to point to dozens to hundreds who do research (in the broadest sense of the term) and run clinics that are vaccine adverse and write web pages, there are whole conferences run by the nutcases at AoA, etc…etc…

            I guess that’s how first-worlders imagine what an oppressive system looks like. Having been to a few places which have actually oppressive governments the truth is much uglier.

          • shay simmons

            Not only that, but leukemia isn’t the greatest killer of pre-teens.

          • FDA to approve flu shot containing squalene which has been shown to cause severe autoimmune disorders

            Paul Fassa
            Natural Blaze
            Mon, 12 Oct 2015 00:00 UTC

            The FDA has granted fast track approval for Swiss based Novartis’s flu shot that contains squalene as an adjuvant to boost what they consider an immune response.

            Fast track approval is normally reserved for crucial emergencies during
            vaccine shortages. You might be aware that there is no shortage of flu
            vaccines and most hyped flu epidemics are bogus.

            But what they call an immune response is mostly a localized cytokine
            response to toxic adjuvants and preservatives. But the process of
            creating a cellular memory to defend against future viral attacks is
            usually bypassed by vaccinating.

            That’s why getting a viral disease and recovering or even being
            exposed to one without falling ill grants lifetime immunity, and that’s
            how true “herd immunity” can occur.

            Squalene was used for troop anthrax vaccinations during the Gulf
            War and has been associated with Gulf War Syndrome that affected
            thousands of American soldiers during the Gulf War, many of whom died
            from that alone, exceeding combat fatalities.

            The squalene paradox is that squalene oil appears naturally in our
            bodies to help manufacture vitamin D and is enhanced by some
            poly-unsaturated fats such as olive oil. But injecting the synthetic
            squalene is a different matter.

            Squalene by injection causes the body to create an antibody response without boundaries. It’s called a cytokine storm.

            The antibodies gather and attack all the body’s natural squalene,
            creating autoimmune diseases ranging from rheumatism to partial or
            complete paralysis and even death. This outcome was common during the 1976 national fake swine flu epidemic that spawned a very strong vaccination push.

            Even President Ford rolled up his sleeve on live TV nationally. Not sure what was in the syringe though.

            The lawsuits from so many deaths and Gillian Barre’ Syndrome (GBS)
            episodes from that vaccination push spurred legislation to indemnify
            vaccine makers from being sued, leading to the current National Vaccine
            Injury Compensation Program (NVICP), a no-fault alternative to the
            traditional tort system for resolving vaccine injury claims, which the
            U.S. Court of Federal Claims decides for whom to award financial
            compensation.

            Immediate Squalene in Vaccine Concerns

            No one should take the swine flu vaccine – it is one of the most
            dangerous vaccines ever devised. It contains an immune adjuvant called
            squalene (MF-59) which has been shown to cause severe autoimmune
            disorders such as MS, rheumatoid arthritis and Lupus. This is
            the vaccine adjuvant that is strongly linked to the Gulf War syndrome,
            which killed over 10,000 soldiers and caused a 200% increase in the
            fatal disease ALS (Lou Gehreg disease). – Dr. Russell Blaylock

        • (*looks up the definition of “legible” *)

          Nope.. does not conform.

          • shay simmons

            Try looking up the definition of “plagiarized.” That’s our Ronnie!

        • shay simmons Reply

          Nice copy/paste, Ron. I see you’re back to your old plagiarizing habits.

          you approve of having kids
          injected with horse blood, rabbit brain,dog kidney,monkey kidney, chick
          embryo,chicken egg protein, duck egg, pigs blood, calf and fetal bovine serum,
          tissue from aborted fetuses and the DNA that it contains, aluminum, thimerosol (
          a form of mercury ), squaline,( which has not been approved by the FDA

          BTW — squalene, as you noted, was never approved by the FDA. That’s why it isn’t in US vaccines.

          Do you ever bother to check before you post?

          • kfunk937

            Wrt squalene, there is one and only one US vaccine, FluAd* (for seniors 65YO + only) that contains squalene adjuvant. It just started shipping for this season, so it’s an insignificant portion of the over-65 ‘flu vaccine market, currently dominated by another relatively new vaccine, FluZone High-Dose (with more antigen, but no adjuvant). IIRC squalene had been FDA approved some time ago, but was never used previously. That’s why anti-vaxxers kept pointing to documentation of
            its approval status, but always ran away any time someone asked to see proof of use (because there was none0.

            * https://secure.marketwatch.com/(S(rnrsydaynixa5x55oiibxm45))/story/seqirus-announces-shipment-of-fluadtm-influenza-vaccine-adjuvanted-in-the-us-for-2016-2017-flu-season-2016-08-16

          • shay simmons

            Thanks! Always glad to learn something new.

        • shay simmons Reply

          The greatest
          killer of pre-teens is leukemia I wonder what causes that?

          The greatest killer of pre-teens are accidents, according to the Census Bureau.

          Don’t you ever bother to check before you post?

          • Jonathan Graham

            What would Ron have to post if he checked his facts?

    • Jonathan Graham Reply

      Looks more to me like the vaccinated are getting it from the same thing that is supposed to prevent the disease: vaccines.

      Then congratulations your powers of perception are less than adequate. If what you hypothesize is true it would be easy to tell. Why? Because we can identify the strain of measles in an infected person. So no, that’s not what’s happening. Although it’s interesting that some complicated system of vaccines reverting to wild strains seems more plausible to you than simple vaccine failure and subsequent exposure.

  3. This is absolutely ridiculous and only intended to put FEAR into parents. Measles is NOT a deadly disease nor something that parents should be fearful of! Ask anyone from an older generation what the measles was like! It was no big deal and then you had years of NATURAL immunity. What parents should be fearful of is what ingredients they are putting into their child when they receive this vaccine. Aborted fetal tissue and another baby’s DNA?! No thank you. Also, if vaccines work, then why weren’t these vaccinated children “protected” from the non vaccinated child? Aren’t vaccines suppose to prevent you from getting the disease? This article is not scientific and only meant to scare. Parents do not buy into this lies. Learn the other side.

  4. Shelbatticus Reply

    Nice try. The reality is though that measles is hardly deadly. I’d rather get that than inject myself with chemicals and toxins and another humans DNA. At least my body will naturally build up its own immune system.

    • You realise you’re putting yourself at a 23x higher risk of toxins just from pertussis by making that decision, right?

      Now, do you have evidence that the chemicals in vaccines are toxic at levels achievable by routine childhood vaccination?

  5. Amanda Eidem Reply

    Not deadly and that baby is photo shopped. If they have measles it is most likely a genotype that is not vaccinated against. Measles mumps and chicken pox actually prevent certain kinds of cancers if obtained naturally. Celebrate the natural immunity gained.

  6. Erin O'Keeffe Montgomery Reply

    Some questions/observations: A) What proof is there that it was contracted from the “unvaccinated” child; B) WHO did the “unvaccinated” child get it from (likely a recently vaccinated person) in order to pass it along; C) IF vaccines work, how was this “unvaccinated” child able to infect “vaccinated” children; and D) in developed countries, measles is NOT “deadly”.

    • I would be willing to bet the unvaccinated child got it from someone who just got an MMR. Otherwise, wouldn’t it be pretty obvious by looking at who else had it before them??!
      It’s not like viruses just sit around waiting to pounce on the unvaccinated!

      My daughter got measles “out of nowhere,” yet we lived in a complex with tons of little ones all getting their shots for school. Hmmmm…

      Then, at 15, she broke out in a measles rash again, and it turned out she had been kissing a boy who had just gotten a booster shot.

      So it turns out my daughter is immune compromised (you know, the ones people are supposed to protect with their vaccines?!) and yet the only time she has had “measles” was after being exposed to people who had recently gotten an MMR.

      When I asked our doctor, she just said “it isn’t unherd of.”

      Really??!

      Were any of you informed that, not only might the vaccine just not work at all, but that receiving the LIVE VIRUS vaccine might put the immune-compromised at risk??!

      And before anyone tells me what we’ve experienced is “impossible” because there are “no reported cases” of this aspect or that, how can there be reports when doctors don’t even know what to look for?!

      And to whomever photoshopped these spots, please do a little homework first as to what measles even looks like. Here’s a photo of my daughter’s measles, the first time she caught them.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e709787c44cb02a9f3f6a143eca7e221c171d707d310268c6c85a521c509a915.jpg

    • AutismDadd Reply

      The patent answer is that HERD IMMUNITY isn’t high enough. Buh Wah Ha Ha really. The vaccinated are only protected if a certain percentage are vaccinated. Real hogwash that makes no sense.

  7. Janet Faber Reply

    Having measles not only results in life-long specific immunity to measles, but also in life-long non-specific immunity to degenerative diseases of bone and cartilage, sebaceous skin diseases, immunoreactive diseases and certain tumours as demonstrated by Ronne (1985).

    Having mumps protects against ovarian cancer (West 1969).

    • Cindy Hoffman Reply

      I had the measles approx 7 years of age, which was 53 years ago. I got a high fever, broke out in a rash 2 days later, than got better. When the rash broke out, my Dad stated, “Thank God, she just has the measles.” I recently had a titers blood test, and 53 years later, I have 4 to 5 times the amount you need for protection. LIFETIME NATURAL IMMUNITY!! Also, if you watch old TV shows where measles are a part of the plot, no one is concerned, except for some activity they are missing. When my husband got the measles, he was very happy when the nurse sent him home from school.

      • AutismDadd Reply

        Yep, but the fake news and fear mongering has turned measles into a KILLER DISEASE and it targeting young mothers who never themselves experienced measles and were vaccinated instead.

    • There is also this huge study: “A reduced risk of Parkinson’s disease was associated with most childhood viral infections. The negative association was statistically significant for a history of measles prior to college entrance (exposure odds ratio = 0.53; 95% confidence limits: 0.31, 0.93).”

      • Oh, good!

        So.. if my child survives these childhood diseases and infections and doesn’t end up permanently harmed.. or worse.. maybe, just maybe.. they might be at just a slightly significant lower risk.

        I think.

        Let’s ask Leslie to explain the following..

        “(exposure odds ratio =0.53; 95% confidence limits: 0.31, 0.93)”

        … …

        And then there is this and directly from the source that Leslie cites..

        “These data may also suggest a truly protective effect of measles,
        compatible with some complex interaction between measles virus and the
        virus of the 1918 influenza epidemic.”

        • Let’s look @ pre vaccine death rates from measles & chickenpox:

          .01125% of measles cases resulted in death (450 out of 4,000,000 cases)
          .00375% of chickenpox cases resulted in death (150 out of 4,000,000 cases)

          In the US, children had an extremely high likelihood of surviving these illnesses so your comment that “they might be at just a slightly significant lower risk” of developing Parkinson’s is nonsense.

          Thank you for pointing out that: “These data may also suggest a truly protective effect of measles, compatible with some complex interaction between measles virus and the virus of the 1918 influenza epidemic.”

          • Proponent

            You haven’t addressed my post.. you simply deflected and/or changed the topic.

            “Let’s ask Leslie to explain the following..

            “(exposure odds ratio =0.53; 95% confidence limits: 0.31, 0.93)” ”

            Can you explain the above, Leslie?

          • Proponent

            You mean.. the “virus of the 1918 influenza epidemic” that swept the world and killed an estimated 50 million people? That the one?

            Any -ways.. and back to the original question that was put to you..

            Let’s ask Leslie to explain the following..

            “(exposure odds ratio =0.53; 95% confidence limits: 0.31, 0.93)”

            … will you explain what the above means, Leslie?

  8. Marcie Ellyn Reply

    Isn’t it interesting, though, that many who contract the illness are totally vaccinated against it? Also, the unvaxxed child who passed it along acquired it from SOMEWHERE, probably a recently vaxxed person. People who are not vaxxed do not just naturally harbor pathogens, they are acquired! Most of these illnesses would never appear if it were not for intentionally placing them INTO people by vaccinating!

  9. Sam Pearson Reply

    My son caught Mumps despite being vaccinated for it and he also caught Whooping Cough.

  10. Since when is measles deadly? You must’ve confused it with vaccinations. Vaccinations are deadly. Do your own research folks.

      • Jessica Lynn Reply

        @darren lookup vaccines and sids…. sadly l they are deadly!

        • Darren Scott Reply

          Thanks for the link.
          Looked it up and yes, they can kill via complications.

          • Dana Slick Milyo

            If measles were so serious, the Brady’s would not have been laughing about it. Serious complications generally happen to the already very immunocompromised…folks who should already be quarantined anyway. No one has died of the measles in the US in over a decade. Not. Deadly.

          • AMSandham

            Vaccines cause autoimmune diseases. End of.

          • Proponent

            Agreed.. I’d like to hear AMSandham’s evidence for her post:

            AMSandham: “Vaccines cause autoimmune diseases. End of.”

            But, since you are here, Sarah H. and upvoted her comment.. maybe you can provide some evidence for this claim.

            Waiting..

          • kfunk937

            Vaccines cause autoimmune diseases.

            And your evidence for this would be what, exactly? Please be specific.

            End of.

            I’m afraid not, AMS, Not only is measles a dangerous, sometimes deadly disease on its own (with up to 30 percent of cases hospitalised, many permanent disabilities in survivours, and 1 – 2 per thousand deaths), but it has been established to suppress immunity and erase previously acquired immunity, raising all-cause deaths in survivours for up to three years.

          • Sarah H.

            Read the package inserts of any vaccine. Obviously this is something you’ve never done.

          • kfunk937

            I’ve read them all. What were you reading?

          • Lydia4154

            Hahahahahaha. You’ve “read them all,” and you still don’t know what the known risks are? Wow. The stupid hurts. Obviously you haven’t read a thing; you are lying. Buh-bye.

          • kfunk937

            Ignorant and truculent is no way to go through life, ma’am.

          • No, Lydia, that’s the thing. We know exactly what the known risks are and won’t fall for adverse events being confused with side effects.

          • You probably shouldn’t call those smarter than you stupid.

          • I’ve also read them all. I never found anything concerning, once I knew the definitions of all the terms.

          • Sarah H.

            Brian, I worked in pharma for 13 years, developing the content of drug package inserts, including vaccines. I know the definitions, and how the FDA works, better than you ever will. If you “have never found anything concerning,” then you probably either cannot read, or you have major problems comprehending what you DO read. Don’t you dare try to insult me. You are part of the evil machine that is harming children around the world. The FDA actually covered up patient injuries at the company I worked for, for 13 years. I eventually quit, because I couldn’t, in good conscience, support a corporation that does such evil in the world.

          • Then like others have already asked you, over and over again, what in the inserts is so concerning? Please point out what you are referring to. Be specific. That way, you can actually prove a point instead of simply throwing out broad and unsubstantiated “you’re evil” accusations to strangers on the internet.

          • kfunk937

            I worked in pharma for 13 years

            Sure you did.

            developing the content of drug package inserts, including vaccines

            What does that even mean? Were you an attorney, a paralegal, a clerical worker? Are you trying to imply that you were a CRA? Spit out the job title, or folks may assume you were in charge of the copying machine.

            You are part of the evil machine that is harming children around the world.

            ORLY? Some specific evidence would certainly shore up your baseless assertion.

            […] covered up patient injuries at the company I worked for, for 13 years. I
            eventually quit, because I couldn’t, in good conscience, support a
            corporation that does such evil in the world.

            You’d have been a hero had you done anything about it. Instead, you admit complicity in your own words. Is your “good conscience” okay with that?

            Don’t you dare try to insult me.

            There goes another irony meter.

          • Sarah H.

            I actually worked at a multi-national pharmaceutical corporation, and it was my job to create the package inserts. I was heavily involved with drug and device submissions to FDA. This includes vaccinations, from development to clinical trial, to market. Don’t give me that “you don’t know what you’re talking about,” nonsense. I know more about the FDA approval process than you ever will. It was my job for 13 years, until I couldn’t take the disgusting cover ups and omissions allowed by FDA. I quit my job, and have never looked back. The FDA would assist the company I worked for in covering up patient injuries!!! They would pretend to “discipline” the company, when no fines were levied, and nothing ever came of their “investigations,”. This is when patients were DYING as a result of the medications being sold. Don’t you, for a moment, think that the FDA is looking out for you. They are not.

          • Proponent

            Sarah H.: “Read the package inserts of any vaccine.”

            Sarah H.: “I was heavily involved with drug and device submissions to FDA. This includes vaccinations, from development to clinical trial, to market.”

            Setting aside that you’ve not responded to On Its Own Merits’s post..

            What exactly are you trying to draw people’s attention to with respect to the package inserts?

          • Complete bollicks, if you were involved with package inserts then you had nothing to do with submissions to the FDA, you were in the marketing department.

          • Sarah H.

            You *literally* know nothing about me. Why don’t you go troll somewhere where you have some knowledge? Right now you are simply making an ass out of yourself, like the other ignorant trolls with no facts.

          • Sarah H.

            Also, it’s *bollocks* not “bollicks”.

          • kfunk937

            it was my job to create the package inserts

            So you’re an attorney, paralegal or secretary?

            The FDA would assist the company I worked for in covering up patient injuries!!!

            Can we read about this somewhere? It sounds like it would have been newsworthy.

            I quit my job, and have never looked back.

            So you didn’t care enough about potential injuries to become a whistleblower? Why not? Doesn’t it bother you to be complicit in “patients DYING”? Even a police report would not have been out of the question. How many deaths have you done nothing to prevent?

            Don’t you, for a moment, think that the FDA is looking out for you. They are not.

            There are other agencies around the world that also approve medications and monitor them for safety. Science doesn’t have much in the way of borders, although regulation of pharmaceuticals including vaccines is a somewhat local phenomenon. Do other countries outside the US share your concerns? I’m not getting that vibe.

            Your posts have every sign of being those of a disgruntled ex-employee who probably never got any closer to science than a high school general biology class, if that.

          • Sarah H.’s post has every sign of being a complete fabrication by a delusional and fanatical anti-vaccinationist. She claims to have information about corporate coverups of which only a CEO would be aware – not some paper shuffling lackey. She claims to have created vaccine package inserts and yet is completely unfamiliar with the concept of Adverse Event and Side Effect and the fact that they are not scientific documents but legal documents. She claims this specialized pharmaceutical industry knowledge and yet was unable to find the information on the kinds and rates of measles complications. That is something a 10 year old with G–gle could do in 10 minutes.

            IMO it is clear she is an uneducated anti-vaccine fanatic willing to tell tall tales to further her cult’s cause.

          • kfunk937

            Agreed, none of her details withstand scrutiny. I was wondering if she was channelling Vaughan.

          • Sarah H.

            Please show your evidence of how measles is so deadly. Waiting.

          • Measles kill thousands every year.

            That’s evidence.

          • Sarah H.

            Statistics? Where are these “millions” of deaths happening?

          • kfunk937

            I was busy elsewhere, but @reality022:disqus provided some information here: https://disqus.com/home/discussion/mum-central/measles_alert_non_vaccinated_child_spreads_measles_to_three_children_in_perth/#comment-3146768291

          • Proponent

            You get your medical information from 1970 TV sitcoms?

            Ok, then.

            … …

            (*whispers*)

            “The Mirror Crack’d”.. which is a 1980 movie based on “The Mirror Crack’d from Side to Side”, an Agatha Christie novel.

            “There can be little doubt that Christie used the real-life tragedy of American actress Gene Tierney as the basis of her plot. Tierney described the event in her autobiography (Self-Portrait, New York: Wyden, 1979), but it had been well publicised for years previously. In June 1943, while pregnant with her first child, Tierney came down with German measles, contracted during her only appearance at the Hollywood Canteen. Congenital rubella syndrome was passed on to the baby, Daria, who was born prematurely, weighing only 3 pounds, 2 ounces, and requiring a total blood transfusion. The infant was also deaf, partially blind with cataracts, and severely developmentally disabled. The child ultimately had to be institutionalised. Some time later, Tierney was approached by a female fan for an autograph at a garden party who revealed that during WWII she had sneaked out of quarantine while sick with German measles to visit the Hollywood Canteen and meet Tierney.”

            (Source: Wikipedia )

          • FallsAngel

            Oh, looky! Another one getting medical information from lame 70s sitcoms!

            And you are incorrect, Dana, that no one has died from measles in the US in over a decade. See this:
            https://www. verywell. com/measles-deaths-2633851
            11 measles deaths, 2000-2015. Also, 32 SSPE deaths (a late complication of measles).

        • And where exactly should I “lookup vaccines and sids”, Jessica Lyn?

      • Annie Wheatley Reply

        Male and female infertility are at an all time high, one in twenty men in fact. I don’t think its the measles.

      • sabelmouse Reply

        you mean mumps. and more likely when you get it as adult. best get it as child.

    • Bob: “Do your own research folks.”

      Welll.. it would appear that..

      “You have a belief system that distorts your ability to process facts.”

      (H/t to Disqus user; Acleron.)

      … …

      It would be a waste of my time (and yours) to try and have an earnest and intelligent discussion. Best of luck with your illiteracy and ignorance of the overwhelming body of science that says you are wrong.

  11. What a silly and misleading article! Measles is not deadly and that photo is not real (poor photoshop job). You should retract this article an issue a public apology for misinforming your readers.

  12. It’s a LIVE virus sheeple…meaning that the recently vaxxed child/adult can and do shed the virus to others that come into contact with them (if they are not looking after themselves with perfect health) for up to 4-6 weeks, so it started with a recently vaxxed human. (Even a 10 year old child could work this out in a grade school science class.)
    Wake up.

    • AutismDadd Reply

      But of course the Vaccine Gestapo wants to blame the unvaccinated for every outbreak.

    • Well, I am confused.

      Did you read the article or not?

      It would appear that you didn’t.. since the article clearly states.. in the first line..

      “They were exposed to the virus at Rockingham General Hospital’s Emergency Department mid-January after a child of a non-vaccinating family presented with the deadly disease.”

      Or, do you have actual evidence to the contrary? And not merely your.. to be kind.. conjecture and speculation?

    • FallsAngel Reply

      Shedding is a myth. The viruses in these vaccines are attenuated. Know what that means? They’re very weakened. They don’t even give the recipient the diseases. There has never been a documented cause of vaccine-virus measles in the 54 years that the vaccine has been used.

      • The phenomenon of measles infection spread by MMR (live
        measles-mumps-rubella vaccine) has been known for decades. In fact, 20
        years ago, scientists working at the CDC’s National Center for
        Infectious Diseases, funded by the WHO and the National Vaccine Program,
        discovered something truly disturbing about the MMR vaccine: it leads to detectable measles infection in the vast majority of those who receive it.

        Published in 1995 in the Journal of Clinical Microbiology and titled, “Detection of Measles Virus RNA in Urine Specimens from Vaccine Recipients,”
        researchers analyzed urine samples from newly MMR vaccinated
        15-month-old children and young adults and reported their eye-opening
        results as following:

        • FallsAngel Reply

          Well, yes, isn’t that shocking! You give kids the vaccine, and you can detect the virus in their urine. That’s hardly disturbing.

          Tell me, Ron, how many cases of vaccine-virus chickenpox have their been. Show your source.

    • FallsAngel Reply

      Shedding is a myth. The viruses in these vaccines are attenuated. They’re very weakened. They don’t even give the
      recipient the diseases. There has never been a documented cause of
      vaccine-virus measles in the 54 years that the vaccine has been used.

  13. Marcus Jasso Reply

    OMG ! Seriously ? I remember when my younger brother had the measles. We shared a bedroom and a bathroom. Played together the entire time. I never caught anything.. Guess my immune system did it’s job. Wonder why our doctor was never concerned ? This article is nothing but a distraction. Can we all get back to our lives now ?

    • FallsAngel Reply

      And just what was the difference between you and your brother? Why did one get it and not the other. Was it something you did? Take the “right” supplements? Get your chakra adjusted properly? Maybe your doctor wasn’t concerned because you’d already had measles. Have you ever asked your mom about that?

  14. Annie Wheatley Reply

    That photo has to be one of the most laughable pieces of photoshopping I’ve seen in a long time. If you did your research you would know that in a developed country such as Australia with good health care and nutrition, the mortality rate from measles was next to nothing even before the measles vaccine was introduced. Being a now mild childhood disease giving life-long immunity, you can understand why some would choose to take the risk. Compare this to an exponentially rising rate of autism and auto-immune disease and pharmaceutical companies and government refusal to to do a study comparing development of vaccinated children to un-vaccinated children. If its no contribution to the cause then do a proper study and rule it out. The refusal speaks volumes. FDA approval means nothing for vaccines because they fall into a category of their own where they are rushed through for approval, in the interest of public health, with inadequate testing and questionable need. Just because you can vaccinate against something doesn’t mean you should. Oh, and Australia doesn’t have any come back for vaccine injured parties because you can’t sue any of the pharmaceutical companies, its in their contract, and Australia doesn’t have a vaccine court like USA. Look at the poor man recently who HAD to have the whooping cough vaccine to be allowed to see his new-born baby and is now a vegetable. Glad the public got to hear about that one because theres plenty they don’t hear about. Our medical freedom is being eroded, mandatory vaccinations and chemotherapy/radiotherapy being forced on children against parents wishes. Its a slippery slope..

    • Huh.

      I can never quite figure out the logic behind ‘get the disease.. so one has immunity from the disease’.

      Can you explain that to me? Why would you not want to avoid the disease in the first place?

      … …

      Particularly.. since that is exactly what vaccines are intended for.. without the pain, suffering, and potentially life-threatening complications.

      As well as, the personal costs (work days lost due to having to care for a child) and the often overlooked societal costs attached..

      “Worldwide, an estimated 20 million people are infected with measles each year, and 146,000 die of complications. In 1980, before widespread vaccination, 2.6 million deaths were attributable to measles annually. In the United States before the introduction of measles vaccine in 1963, measles was a significant cause of disease and death: an estimated 3 to 4 million people were infected annually, although only about 549,000 were reported. There were 48,000 hospitalizations, 1,000 cases of permanent brain damage from measles encephalitis, and 495 deaths annually.”

      (Source: Bloch AB, Orenstein WA, Stetler HC, et al. Health impact of measles
      vaccination in the United States
      . Pediatrics 1985; 76:524–532.)

      See also: The Cost of Containing One Case of Measles: The Economic Impact on the Public Health Infrastructure Gustavo H. Dayan, Ismael R. Ortega-Sánchez, Charles W. LeBaron and M. Patricia Quinlisk Pediatrics 2005;116;e1 DOI: 10.1542/peds.2004-2512 )

    • Evidence of photoshopping? Should be easy, given how laughable it is.

      What mandatory vaccinations? No-one is suggesting we hold you down or jail you.

    • FallsAngel Reply

      1. Not as laughable as some of the photo-shopping the anti-vaxers do: https://www. google. com/search?q=antivaccine+graphics+of+babies+getting+shots&biw=1794&bih=946&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiRt_fj05LSAhUC4mMKHbqaBggQ7AkILw#imgrc=yFM_INI5nN-4lM
      https://www. google. com/search?q=antivaccine+graphics+of+babies+getting+shots&biw=1794&bih=946&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiRt_fj05LSAhUC4mMKHbqaBggQ7AkILw#imgrc=pbopm8_ULdtvLM::
      2. “Vegetable”? Grow UP!

  15. The MMR vaccine (MMR ProQuad) contains aborted fetal lung tissue. This original fetus was aborted due to maternal psychiatric reasons in September, 1966.(1) The MMR2 vaccine contains aborted fetal lung tissue of a 3-month old human female. (2) These fetal cells are used because the human cells can be used to grow the measles virus. There is concern that the increase in autism that has occurred may be due to the introduction of human DNA–from fetal cells–in the MMR and chicken pox vaccines.(3) A scientific review from Dr. Helen Ratajczak, a former scientist at a pharmaceutical firm, reviewed the body of published research since autism was first described in 1943. Dr. Ratajczak stated, “What I have published is highly concentrated on hypersensitivity. The body’s immune system is being thrown out of balance..” by the increasing number of vaccines given in a short period of time. (4) She also felt that the introduction of human DNA contained in vaccines has markedly increased the risk of developing autism. Presently, human tissue is used in 23 vaccines. Dr. Ratajczak feels that the increased spike in autism may be related to the introduction of human DNA into the MMR and chicken pox vaccines. She goes on to state that the foreign DNA from vaccines can be incorporated into the host DNA which causes the immune system to fight against the foreign cells. This could start an inflammatory process that never ends, leading to chronic illnesses like autoimmune disease and allergies. Maybe this is why we are seeing so many children with severe, life-threatening allergies to common foods like peanuts.

      • OK Pro – if you call me a liar it is up to you to point out where it is a lie. Do you think parroting the word lie magically makes you right?

        • You didn’t attribute your source, Judith.

          Why is that?

          And..

          You’ve posted this all before and numerous times.. and were spoonfed where you erred in your interpretation and/or the science simply being bad and/or wrong

          So.. yes.. you are still lying, Judith.

        • Pro cannot point out where you’re lying, because you’re not. And pro is obviously very uneducated about this topic.

          • The incident of death and the incident of disease are closely connected. When death is dropping it indicates the disease is getting milder. Natural herd immunity is taking hold. Vaccination introduced at this time disrupts the process of natural herd immunity. We now have populations with no natural immunity that they can pass on to their children.

          • Mike Stevens

            You haven’t the faintest clue as to what herd immunity is, do you Judith?

            PS: the correct term is “incidence”, not “incidents”. How long have you been “researching” vaccine epidemiology for now? A couple of hours? Because it sounds like it.

          • “The incident of death and the incident of disease are closely connected. ” Then it should be easy for you to cite incidence charts showing the diseases dropping pre-vaccine. Kindly get on with it.

            “When death is dropping it indicates the disease is getting milder. ” No, it doesn’t. It could also indicate that we’re getting better at saving the sick as a species.

            “Natural herd immunity is taking hold. ” What do you think happens when we start adding new susceptible to the population?

            “Vaccination introduced at this time disrupts the process of natural herd immunity. ” Yes. That’s the point! Aren’t you concerned about toxins such as in the natural immunity for diphtheria and pertussis?

            “We now have populations with no natural immunity that they can pass on to their children.” That already happened – that’s why there was more than 3 outbreaks of any given disease. It doesn’t get passed on in any meaningful way.

          • FallsAngel

            When death is dropping it means that medical care is better. You obviously don’t understand what “natural” herd immunity is. That’s what there was in the adult population pre-vaccine. Adults didn’t get measles (usually) because they’d already had it.

          • shay simmons

            If populations could pass on natural immunity to their children, measles would not have been considered nearly universal in the US in 1962.

            “Measles Elimination in the United States,” op cit.

        • Mike Stevens Reply

          You claimed the MMR contains “aborted fetal lung tissue.

          That is a lie.
          There is no “tissue” in any vaccine, no more so than saying there is soil and bark in purified Apple juice.

          • The MMR does contain DNA from aborted fetal cells

        • Mike Stevens Reply

          Well you claimed aborted fetal tissue was in vaccines.
          That’s one lie, for starters.

        • FallsAngel Reply

          There is no human tissue in any vaccine. As has been pointed out to you many times over, that’s like saying there’s dirt in apples because the tree is grown in dirt. Some vaccines are grown in tissue cultures that comes from two abortions done in the 1960s.

  16. Measles is a relatively benign illness. Adequate vitamin A and good nutrition makes it no more dangerous than a cold. However vaccines are full of toxic ingredients:

    The study, published this week in the International Journal of Vaccines and Vaccination,

    “Researchers examining 44 samples of 30 different vaccines found dangerous contaminants, including red blood cells in one vaccine and metal toxicants in every single sample tested – except in one animal vaccine.

    Using extremely sensitive new technologies not used in vaccine manufacturing, Italian scientists reported they were “baffled” by their discoveries which included single particles and aggregates of organic debris including red cells of human or possibly animal origin and metals including lead, tungsten, gold, and chromium, that have been linked to autoimmune disease and leukemia.

    The study explains that these foreign injected impurities may explain a vast array of apparently unrelated adverse events associated with vaccination from headaches and seizures to fatigue, muscle pain, paralysis and sudden infant death syndrome. More likely than not, they speculate, vaccine contaminants will “have a more serious impact on very small organisms like those of children.”

    Once inside a body, foreign material in a vaccine shot, whether it is meant to be there as in the case of an aluminum, or not, in the case of contaminants, launches the formidable immune system into action.

    As with anything small and foreign, its reaction to vaccine ingredients is potent, poorly understood, unpredictable, and as the Italian researchers say, may be “undesirable.” The immune system may dispatch an army of large white blood cells called macrophages to engulf the foreign bodies and contain them in swellings and granulomas at the injection site. But if the contaminants are swept away in the blood’s circulation to any distant site or organ including the microbiota, which regulate numerous functions including the immune system, their effect could be felt long after they covertly entered the body.

    In some cases, the immune system my initiate an inflammatory assault against what it perceives as invader. This may include the launch of a host of players called cytokines. Some of these chemical messengers like interleukin-6 are incriminated in autism.

    Because the body may have difficulty removing these contaminants, this kind of inflammation may be sustained and chronic and can manifest as autoimmune diseases when the immune system turns on its own cells as in multiple sclerosis or type 1 diabetes.”

      • That isn’t all – the neglect is profoundly worrying.
        Recent glass shards found in infant vaccines was ignored by government and the vaccines were not recalled.

        http(colon) //www(dot)mcall(dot)com/news/local/watchdog/mc-sanofi-pasteur-defective-vaccine-vials-20161210-story(dot)html

        • AutismDadd Reply

          Such a shoddy industry supported by a shoddy government agency. Hopefully Trump drains that swamp.

    • You’ve posted this all before, Judith.

      And were spoonfed that your copypasta is spurious and misleading as presented.

      Stop.. lying.

      Stop.. being disingenuous in these discussions.

      • Been expecting you to turn up Pro – we need a little dis-information on this forum.

  17. Christy Volosin Reply

    How are the other babies getting measles if they, themselves, are vaccinated? Maybe I missed something, but if the vaccines are all that effective, how did they get it? Or is this just a propaganda technique to scare us? Are we not supposed to think for ourselves?

    • Most adults are not vaccinated but could be carriers. However the govt. concentrates on forcing our children to get the dangerous MMR vaccine. Also top experts admit the vaccine is not effective enough to create herd immunity.

      *The measles vaccine has failed, he explained two years ago in a prescient paper, “The re-emergence of measles in developed countries.” In that paper, he warned that due to factors that most haven’t noticed, measles has come back to be a serious public health threat. Poland sees the need for a major rethink, after concluding that the current measles vaccine is unlikely to ever live up to the job expected of it: “outbreaks are occurring even in highly developed countries where vaccine access, public health infrastructure, and health literacy are not significant issues. Paper: The Re-Emergence of Measles in Developed Countries: Time to Develop the Next-Generation Measles Vaccines? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih (dot) gov/pmc/articles/PMC3905323/

      http://business.financialpost (dot) com/2014/05/01/lawrence-solomon-vaccines-cant-prevent-measles-outbreaks/ & -Arch Intern Med. 1994 Aug 22;154(16):1815-20.

      Failure to reach the goal of measles elimination. Apparent paradox of measles infections in immunized persons.

      Poland GA1, Jacobson RM.

      Conclusion: The apparent paradox is that as measles immunization rates rise to high levels in a population, measles becomes a disease of immunized persons. Dr. Gregory Poland is Professor of Medicine and founder and leader of Mayo Clinic’s Vaccine Research Group. Poland is one of the world’s most admired, most advanced thinkers in the field of vaccinology.

    • Daisy Chandler Reply

      Judith… most adults have not been vaccinated for over 7 years (the period of time most vaccines are effective). So we have millions of adults who are not vaccinated, that engage with children daily. You want to blame the unvaccinated children for diseases, but most adults do not get booster, unless they work with children. This makes no sense! Stick up for your kid and see how Big pharma scams us Americans into thinking that they are right!

      • FallsAngel Reply

        Measles vaccine immunity is thought to be life-long. The vaccine came out in 1963, so we can’t say lifetime. I found one study that looked back 30 years and found the vaccinnees still immune. No booster is recommended after the original two shots.

    • FallsAngel Reply

      Babies do not get vaccinated until age 12-15 months. You should think for yourself, and not believe anti-vax woo-masters.

    • FallsAngel Reply

      Babies under 1 cannot get the vax. Yes, you did miss something. Try reading the vaccination schedule.

  18. So ONE unvaxxed child supposedly passes Measles on to VACCINATED children?! Talk about projection. The real problem isn’t the unvaccinated child. The problem is that the vaccines are not working, and they are unavoidably unsafe!

    • Where did you come across the terms “unavoidably unsafe”?

      ‘Cause..

      It.. does.. not.. mean.. what you think it means.

      • It comes from the United States Supreme Court’s own wording.

      • Obviously you’ve not been following the US Supreme Court. They ruled that vaccines are unavoidably unsafe, back in 2011. Google it; it’s on the Supreme Court’s own website.

        • Actually, I have.. and reiterating, the terms “unavoidably safe” do not mean what you think it means.

          This is a rather easy to understand explanation:

          FindLaw | “What Is an Unavoidably Unsafe Product?

          More in-depth, and in proper context (re: Bruesewitz v. Wyeth):

          Redwineandapplesauce | “Guest post: Vaccines and “Unavoidably Unsafe Products” ”

          … will you read the above?

      • I would like to know how you find that vaccines are so wonderful, when they are not working, as is proven with this article.

        • Straw men and Nirvana fallacies are both used in the pro-vax arguments. Lol.

          • Really? Can you link to where pro-vax argumenters misrepresented another person’s position or claimed that if something wasn’t perfect, it was useless?

            Should be easy given that they’re both used in the pro-vax arguments.

            I ask for curiosity’s sake since I am sure you know better than to commit an ad hominem tu quoque fallacy.

        • Mike Stevens Reply

          “I would like to know how you find that vaccines are so wonderful, when they are not working, as is proven with this article.”

          I see an unvaccinated child giving 3 others measles, at least 2 of whom were unvaccinated.

          The thing that is “not working” appears to be antivaccine logic.

  19. Well, they must have gotten the measles from a recently vaccinated kid since the vaccine sheds the virus.

  20. Babies supposed to protect from measles through mother’s breast milk till she be year and half if mother is immune to natural measles and breast feeding to baby but if mother got vaccine, cannot give this wonderful thing. When they get older and strong enough to fight measles, usually they get it, get over it then grow up and when mother have baby, passed on immunity to their baby until they get older. So vaccine shouldn’t mess with this great cycle to protect babies.Also vaccine is not perfect. So many vaccinated children get measles and shed to others. Vaccine worn out 1~10 years depends on person, some people never get immune to it. It is crappy product that should be investigated and improve to better and safe one.

  21. Daisy Chandler Reply

    If vaccines work, why is this an issue? They are supposed to prevent your child from acquiring the disease. So why worry about an unvaccinated child? Your vaccines should be working!!!!!! Or do they??!?!

  22. Whats the big deal with getting measels. When i was young mothers sought out kids that had measels so that the kids would get the natural, safe immunity that only comes from getting measles naturally. Why would anyone want to vaccinate this into a child? There is no immunity and many vaccinated kids get it from the vaccination. Obtained naturally, there are no toxins shot into the body cavity, where all the filtering organs are by passed as is the gut where we have most of our immune system. A shot goes directly into the blood stream and the toxins can go directly to the brain.
    By getting measels naturally you have life long immunity. All the bodies natural immune system can handle it with only the slightest rash and practically no discomfort. Also it lasts maybe a week and thats it then it goes and you have a stronger immune system and no toxins shot into you.

  23. That picture isn’t of a child with measles. How misleading. Measles are not a big deal anyway. Mild, childhood illness. Peddle your fear and propaganda elsewhere.

    • Perhaps stock photos of toddlers with measles are less plentiful, thanks to widespread measles vaccination and few remember what measles looks like, thanks to widespread measles vaccination. Fortunately, there are also varicella vaccines available to prevent chickenpox.

      • Jane Jones Reply

        Yep-isn’t the US great! We have taken yet another benign disease and tried to immunise that away to the detriment of the older population that no longer gets the natural exposure bump needed to keep shingles away. Shingles numbers are on the rise-but wait we have a vaccine for that too that does not work but most probably will give you shingles. We need to quit believing we can vaccinate our way to health–to stay healthy stay away from Drs. and vaccines and start building up your own immune system!!!

        • FallsAngel Reply

          Tell me what singles has to do with measles. I’m quite interested.

        • Only in opposite world is something that kills thousands of children each year considered “benign”.

        • Citation? If only we could build up our immune system…if only there was some way of going “Here, Boy? See this? Sniff this? Attack this next time you see it! Good Immune System!”

          This all-natural 20% CMR is terrible, isn’t it? If only we could do something about it….

        • shay simmons Reply

          Your evidence that measles was/is a benign disease is what, exactly?

  24. Tami Aronowitz Goldstein Reply

    If vaccines work why is this a problem. Measles is not a deadly disease. There hasn’t been a death by measles in 10 years according to the CDC. http://Www.vaxxedthemovie. com
    Australia has the most aggressive vaccine program no wonder they ate passing this propaganda

  25. Terri Willcocks Reply

    Now these children have wonderful life-long natural immunity without all the toxic substances found in vaccines! Vaccines do not prevent illness.

    • What is your evidence that the substances found in vaccines are toxic at the levels found in vaccines?

      What is your evidence that vaccines don’t prevent illness? I trust it is something more than the Nirvana Fallacy or failing maths.

    • shay simmons Reply

      Except for the ones who will die or suffer permanent sequelae. You forgot that part.

  26. Lara Devika Reply

    Good thing measles isn’t a fatal illness. Now these children will have lifelong immunity and won’t need to be injected with toxic chemicals! Yay!
    BTW, were the three children who got the measles from this child vaccinated?

    • FallsAngel Reply

      Like Hades measles isn’t fatal. You can get in an argument with someone about death rates till it freezes over, but kids do die from measles. In the US, prevaccine, about 450-500 died every year, at a time when the population of the US was about half of what it is now.

      • The death rate from measles had dropped to almost 0 BEFORE the vaccine. However your partially right concerning the vaccine preventing deaths in third world counties. The vaccines cause the recipients to die from the vaccine so of course they don’t die from the measles:”It was similar with the measles vaccination. They went through Africa,
        South America and elsewhere, and vaccinated sick and starving children…They thought they
        were wiping out measles, but most of those susceptible to measles died from some other
        disease that they developed as a result of being vaccinated. The vaccination reduced their
        immune levels and acted like an infection. Many got septicaemia, gastro-enteritis,
        etcetera, or made their nutritional status worse and they died from malnutrition. So there
        were very few susceptible infants left alive to get measles. It’s one way to get good
        statistics, kill all those that are susceptible, which is what they literally did.”
        –Dr Kalokerinos, M.D. Dr Kalokerinos
        interview——-International Vaccine Newsletter June 1995

        • FallsAngel Reply

          The death rate from measles pre-vaccine was 450-500 per year. Feel free to blow that off if you wish.

          • Antivaxxer logic : vaccines don’t work therefore mortality must be unchanged after introduction. Present mortality approximates zero therefore must have been zero prior to introduction. /antivaxxer logic.

            Antivaxxer evidence : pah /antivaxxer evidence

          • Woof!
            That was also pre-running water. Back in the days when horses pooped in the streets and fresh produce was a basically a summer and fall luxury for most.

            Why are you trying give credit to vaccines? Who is your employer?

          • FallsAngel

            Where’d you live that there was no running water in 1963?

          • sabelmouse

            pretty sure there were places, as well as other short comings regading living conditions, and adequate nutrition.
            even though things had improved to the point that measles mortality was close to zero.

          • FallsAngel

            In 1960, about 75% of people in the US had public water supplies. That does not mean the other 25% did not have running water. The vast majority had wells. Very few people were drinking out of streams.
            https://water. usgs. gov/edu/wups.html

            “Close to zero” is not zero, and remember that 30% had complications, with about 20% hospitalized.

          • sabelmouse

            and? it’s the outcome that matters , and why.
            those numbers could have been farther reduced without vaccines.
            but you’ve been told all this already.

          • FallsAngel

            How, sabel? How would the numbers have been farther reduced w/o vaccines? The researchers, you know, people who know a bit more than you or me, were concerned that the death rate had been leveling off since the 1950s. There was only so much your vaunted nutrition/sanitation, combined with medical care, something you AVs never acknowledge, could do to prevent these deaths. And though we’ve come a long way since the 50s, in the 1989-91 outbreak in the US, the death rate was higher than expected, in part b/c so many infants, who have the highest death rate, were affected.

            Measles is a VIRUS, there’s no anti-viral for it. Once it gets into your body, it just does its thing. There is no way to avoid the viral pneumonias, ear infections, encephalitises that occur from the virus. And yeah, as your bud cia likes to say, most of these viral pneumonias are “self-limiting”. What that means is that when the patient dies, the pneumonia is gone.

            And SSPE is now thought to be more common than previously estimated. Such a lovely way to lose your kid, not!

          • shay simmons

            What part of the above statement can you refute, sabel?

          • sabelmouse

            it’s to idiotic to even bother. as are most shill comments.

          • England
            actually saw a drop in pertussis deaths when vaccination rates
            dropped to 30% in the mid 70’s. Swedish epidemiologist B. Trollfors’
            study of pertussis vaccine efficacy and toxicity around the world
            found that “pertussis-associated mortality is currently very low
            in industrialised countries and no difference can be discerned when
            countries with high, low, and zero immunisation rates were
            compared.” He also found that England, Wales, and West Germany had
            more pertussis fatalities in 1970 when the immunization rate was
            high than during the last half of 1980, when rates had fallen.17

          • Mike Stevens

            No Ron, in the UK there were 3 large epidemics of pertussis that followed the drop in vaccination to 31% in the mid 70s.
            In the first, there were 38 deaths, and nearly 100 in total until DTaP brought the disease back under control in the late 1980s.

          • FallsAngel

            Fatalities are not incidence, Ron! All of these countries have reinstituted pertussis vaccination.

          • FallsAngel

            How disgusting of you to use that word like that.

          • shay simmons

            1962 was pre running water? Where does Phoebe get her history knowledge, “Litte House On The Prairie?”

          • Obviously not. LHOP had some … fairly accurate…representation of dangers when compared to oh, I don’t know, say,The Brady Bunch.

          • Pre vaccine death rates from measles:
            .01125% of measles cases resulted in death (450 out of 4,000,000 cases)

            Death rates from measles in the 1960’s didn’t even make the list for the top death rate stats.

          • FallsAngel

            Ha, ha! You guys love to “lie with statistics”. First, you use the lower of the 450-500 as the number of deaths; secondly, you talk about 4 million cases, when the rate is actually a) unknown, and b) likely to be about 95% of the birth cohort, not 100%. Thirdly, you refer to pre-vaccine. That was the rate in the later years of the pre-vaccine era only and the number of deaths had been leveling off since the 1950s, as there’s just so much medical science can do. Fourth, if there were a vaccine that caused that many deaths, well, there wouldn’t be because it would never have gotten to the point of general distribution if it were that dangerous, but. . . you’d be up in arms. Lastly if your kid was one of those 450-500, you would not be a happy camper.

            About 30% of cases have some complication. Let’s use 3,800,000 cases/yr. That’s 1, 140,000 complications. Some of these complications can cause permanent hearing, vision, and mental capacity loss.

          • FallsAngel

            Allow me to add-measles became a reportable disease in 1912. In the first 10 years of reporting, ~6000 deaths PER YEAR were recorded. Measles deaths did not start dropping until the late 1920s, and even then it was a gradual drop with peaks and valleys. It is untrue that there were “only” 450 deaths per year during the entire pre-vaccine era.

          • sabelmouse

            that was like half the population, right?

          • FallsAngel

            What if it was YOUR kid? If there was a vaccine that caused that many deaths, you AVs would be rightly up in arms.

          • sabelmouse

            its terrible no matter who’s child, especial;ly if it could have been prevented by social justice, aka decent living conditions for all.
            and good medical care for all as well, and no stupid mm mistakes like fever reducers, and so on.
            vaccines do cause death but more importantly cause livelong illness, and a thoroughly crewed up immune system.

          • Mike Stevens

            Sabel, if you knew of an action that could prevent a million deaths, but cost the life of one child, why would you not be in favour of it?

            I ask, because you seem to be disposed to preferring the option whereby you could prevent one death, but at the cost of millions, while pretending to yourself that nobody died.

          • sabelmouse

            you hang around here, i’m sure you got a cite already.
            as for social justice; this has nothing to do with recent memes.
            it’s simply a fact that most of these deaths were due to poverty in some way , and most of that poverty was due to social IN justice.
            there are few admitted to deaths from vaccines, for obvious reasons.

          • FallsAngel

            Yeah, like Olivia Dahl’s. She was a poverty stricken child who died of measles. Get real, sabel. It can happen to anyone. And get off the keyboard and get out there in the trenches.

          • sabelmouse

            that 1 poor child is all you have.
            we don’t know how well nourished she was, she might have been a picky eater.
            wether she had an underlying condition, or if giving her aspirin harmed her.
            what trenches would those be and shouldn’t you get of that keyboard, you seem attached.

          • Almost the entire royal entourage of the King and Queen of Hawaii died from measles on visiting London in 1824. They were obviously poor, picky eaters who had taken aspirin /sarcasm

            PMID: 19633516

          • sabelmouse

            had the encountered measles before? had they encountered a dirty sewer like london before?

          • shay simmons

            Their healthy diet/lifestyle did nothing to protect them from measles when they encountered it.

          • sabelmouse

            i am trying very hard to remind myself, that contrary to experience, you probably aren’t really that ignorant but only pretending.

          • shay simmons

            You’re not trying very hard to actually post anything factual or useful.

            Or maybe you just can’t?

          • Probably not but being rich and well fed they shouldn’t have needed to be, according to you.

          • sabelmouse

            what a way to simplify complex issues.
            next you’re going to bring up the injuns.

          • If your view of infection is simplistic it is hardly my fault. Anyway, it’s wrong.

          • Mike Stevens

            Worth emphasising:
            “The imported epidemics of infections including measles diminished
            Hawaii’s population from approximately 300,000 at Captain Cook’s arrival in 1778 to 135,000 in 1820 and 53,900 in 1876.”

            And yet Cia and Sabel would say measles is a harmless, nay beneficial disease.

          • Mike Stevens had a pertinent comment to make but those unwilling to allow facts have flagged it.
            ‘Worth emphasising:
            “The imported epidemics of infections including measles diminished
            Hawaii’s population from approximately 300,000 at Captain Cook’s arrival
            in 1778 to 135,000 in 1820 and 53,900 in 1876.”
            And yet Cia and Sabel would say measles is a harmless, nay beneficial disease.’

            I will add that vaccination prevented an estimated 20.3 millions of deaths between 2000 – 2015 but in 2015 there were still 15 deaths per hour from a vaccine preventable disease.

          • FallsAngel

            No, that “1 poor child” who was by no stretch of the imagination even “upper middle class” let alone poor, is not all I have. She is the example I gave.

            It took a walk in the 33 degree 7 AM air to clear my mind of your gobbledy-gook, but I did it! As I said yesterday, the entire Western Hemisphere has eliminated measles. There’s a lot of poverty in the W, especially in Central and South America. You ain’t seen nothin’ till you see some of the urban slums in Brazil, and people living in third-world conditions along the Amazon in tiny villages that you can’t even find on a map. Any yet they’ve eliminated measles.

            Tell you what, sabel, since you’re so sure these deaths are due to poverty, you prove it. You know what we say here-your assertion, you provide the proof. Ditto for that aspirin nonsense.

          • sabelmouse

            it that case all the measles outbreaks are from the 3rd world, or more likely caused by a shedding vaccine.
            thank you.
            read some history.

          • FallsAngel

            All endemic measles is in the Eastern Hemisphere. Shedding does not exist. Mississippi, which has the highest measles vacciantion rate in the US, has not seen a case since 1992, not even this past year when there was an outbreak in their neighbor, Tennessee.
            http://www. cidrap. umn. edu/news-perspective/2016/09/americas-region-first-achieve-measles-elimination

            https://www. cdc. gov/measles/travelers. html
            “Measles remains a common disease in many parts of the world, including areas in Europe, Asia, the Pacific, and Africa.”

          • shay simmons

            Read some science. The MMR does not shed.

          • FallsAngel

            No, that “1 poor child” who was by no stretch of the imagination even
            “upper middle class” let alone poor, is not all I have. She is the
            example I gave.

            It took a walk in the 33 degree 7 AM air to clear my mind of your misinformation, but I did it! As I said yesterday, the entire Western Hemisphere has eliminated measles. There’s a lot of poverty in the W, especially in Central and South America. You ain’t seen nothin’ till you see some of the urban slums in Brazil, and people living in third-world conditions along the Amazon in tiny villages that you can’t even find on a map. Any yet they’ve eliminated measles.

            Tell you what, sabel, since you’re so sure these deaths are due to poverty, you prove it. You know what we say here-your assertion, you provide the proof. Ditto for that aspirin assertion.

          • Mike Stevens

            Go on Sabel, go channel your comrade warrior in arms Cia Parker and tell us how these 500 deaths a year were “No big deal”.

        • shay simmons Reply

          “The death rate from measles had dropped to almost 0” – as has been pointed out to you innumerable times before, Ron, the death rate in the US from measles was about 450 per year when the vaccine was introduced. From “Measles Elimination in the United States,” Orenstein, Papania and Wharton, Journal of Infectious Diseases May 2004.

          In 1962, immediately preceding the licensure of the first measles vaccines in the United States, when measles was a nearly universal disease, Alexander Langmuir described the medical importance of measles to the country and put forth the challenge of measles eradication [1]. Although most patients recovered without permanent sequelae, the high number of cases each year made measles a significant cause of serious morbidity and mortality Langmuir showed that >90% of Americans were infected with the measles virus by age 15 years [1]. This equated to roughly 1 birth cohort (4 million people) infected with measles each year. Not all cases were reported to the public health system; from 1956 to 1960, an average of 542,000 cases were reported annually.By the late 1950s, even before the introduction of measles vaccine, measles-related deaths and case fatality rates in the United States had decreased markedly, presumably as a result of improvement in health care and nutrition. From 1956 to 1960, an average of 450 measles-related deaths were reported each year (∼1 death/ 1000 reported cases), compared with an average of 5300 measles-related deaths during 1912–1916 (26 deaths/ 1000 reported cases) [2]. Nevertheless, in the late 1950s, serious complications due to measles remained frequent and costly. As a result of measles virus infections, an average of 150,000 patients had respiratory complications and 4000 patients had encephalitis each year; the latter was associated with a high risk of neurological sequelae and death. These complications and others resulted in an estimated 48,000 persons with measles being hospitalized every year [3]

    • Now, do you have evidence that said chemicals are toxic at levels achievable by routine childhood vaccination?

      As for your question….you’re surely not dumb enough to fall for the Nirvana Fallacy.

  27. Bronwyn Leslie Reply

    My two youngest got rubella from a recently vaccinated visitor to my house. This triggered autoimmune issues in both. Their susceptibility is why they were not vaccinated in the first place.

    • Bronwyn Leslie: “My two youngest got rubella from a recently vaccinated visitor to my house. This triggered autoimmune issues in both.”

      So.. you don’t agree, then, with the others that getting the disease and infection towards the end of getting immunity is a good idea.. right?

      … …

      ‘Sides.. spider senses tingling (read; *cough*bs*cough*).

      Or, to be clear.. I don’t believe you.

      Ask me why..

    • Hey, I have some questions for you.

      1)How did you establish a causative link? I trust it is on some basis more robust than the Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy.
      2)How soon after?
      3)Are you claiming “vaccines aren’t 100% effective” or that vaccines shed and cause disease?

      4a)If the former, yes, we know. That’s part of why herd immunity is so important which to remind you, as medically-unable-to-be-vaccinated, your kids rely on.
      4b)If the latter, then it’s strange that there isn’t a positive correlation.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/039edfd0b996c489314b85f22ec813978c0bc18fe740027cfef2ee465df001c4.jpg

    • Mike Stevens Reply

      “My two youngest got rubella from a recently vaccinated* visitor to my house. This triggered autoimmune issues in both”

      So your daughters caught rubella, and suffered autoimmune issues as a result.
      …And people here imagine rubella is harmless? Thanks for confirming how dangerous it can be, and not just to pregnant women.

      *If the visitor had recently had MMR, then investigation of your daughters’ illness would revel the genotype of the rubella strain. What was it, incidentally?
      You also realise that if it was proven to be vaccine strain, this event is so unusually rare that it would have been reported, and written up and published in the medical journals?
      Did that happen?

  28. Lisa Doyon Reply

    That looks photoshopped for one thing. But as others have said, if children are vaccinated, and the vaccines do the job they are purported to do, then they shouldn’t get the measles; right? And if an unvaccinated child did pass this on to vaccinated children, then it seems pointless to get the vaccine. And how many of the vaccinated children pass on measles to unvaccinated children through shedding?

    • 97 percent effective is better than zero percent effective.

      And shedding doesn’t happen with measles. Please stop lying.

      • Lisa Doyon Reply

        Where on earth did you get the idea that it was 97% effective? Completely wrong. And any live virus vaccine can shed.

        • It has long been known that a two-dose series of MMR is about 97% effective in providing immunity. Pretty much every large measles outbreak re-confirms this.

          We also know the MMR vaccine doesn’t shed the disease. There are 19 strains of measles, and in every outbreak, the strain can be determined through testing. Only one of the strains is in the vaccine, and that strain is not present in any disease outbreaks.

          • Lisa Doyon

            Well known to the CDC who lie?

            The CDC says that vaccine-induced immunity “appears to be long-term and probably lifelong in most persons.” However, some studies show that vaccine failure due to waning immunity may occur.1 Recent news reports from India showed that only 1 child in 5 vaccinated for measles was actually protected from getting the disease, even after being fully vaccinated.2

            There are studies showing that measles outbreaks can occur in fully vaccinated populations.8,9,10 For example, an outbreak of measles in the spring of 1985 in Corpus Christi, Texas, occurred in a school where more than 99 percent of the students were fully vaccinated. After examining serum samples from students for detectable measles antibodies, the study’s researchers concluded that “outbreaks of measles can occur in secondary schools, even when more than 99 percent of the students have been vaccinated…”11

            In another outbreak in a school in Illinois in 1983-84, the Centers for Disease Control confirmed that the school had a “documented immunization level of 100 percent,”12 suggesting the possibility of certain amount of primary vaccine failure or waning immunity since it had been 10 or more years since the students, who got measles, had had their last measles shot.

            Some research reveals that exposure to natural measles not only is actually necessary to maintain protective antibodies in vaccinated persons, but also may help prevent symptoms of allergic diseases.13,14 Still other research shows that measles vaccine acquired immunity wanes over time, providing an opportunity for subclinical (asymptomatic) measles infections to occur in fully vaccinated populations.15

          • How long has it been known that the 2 dose series is 97% effective in providing immunity?

            When MMR was introduced in the early 1970’s people were told that 1 dose gives lifetime immunity. Then there was a massive outbreak 20 years later. The 2 dose series has only been in effect for about 25 years, so there is NO scientific proof that it confers lifetime immunity as those who’ve received 2 doses are only in their 30’s.

            Oh, and the majority (55%) of the Disneyland measles cases were in adults.

          • Only 20% of adults are vaccinated for measles – where are the outbreaks?

          • So? That was addressing the ‘shedding’ argument. As for your question, herd immunity – the germ doesn’t care where you got the immunity *from*.

          • FallsAngel

            Where do you get that figure Judith? How about, for a rarity, a citation? Are you talking US or Australia? Here in the US, anyone born before 1957 is considered immune to measles “by right”. That takes care of everyone 60+. The first vaccines came out in 1963, and there is no upper age limit for receiving it. Measles vaccine has been part of the routine immunization schedule since AT LEAST the late 60s. That takes care of everyone (well, the ~90% of them that are vaccinated) under about 50. Many of the rest have either been immunized or in the older group, had the disease pre-vaccine.

          • Bit like citizenship in that way.

            There’s two ways to achieve the same goal: Jus Sangunisis or Jus Soli/

            Natural immunity/the disease or vaccine.

        • FallsAngel Reply

          Do see this. https://www. cdc. gov/measles/vaccination. html
          “The MMR vaccine is very safe and effective. Two doses of MMR vaccine are
          about 97% effective at preventing measles; one dose is about 93%
          effective.”

        • Mike Stevens Reply

          …And the worst that could happen if shedding did occur would be the exposed person would get a freebie vaccination, or a booster.

          • Vaccine-induced immunity for measles is less robust than natural immunity, leading to waning immunity over time, whereas birth before 1957 is considered “evidence of immunity” to measles by the CDC since natural infection generally confers permanent, lifelong immunity.

            Mothers who were naturally infected in their youth are able to pass on their antibodies to their infants through their breastmilk. Infants born to vaccinated mothers, on the other hand, are at a higher risk in the event of an outbreak since their mothers are less able to protect them due to waning vaccine-induced immunity.

            Immunity from natural infection with pertussis may last from 4-20 years, whereas protection from the vaccine lasts only 2-4 years.

            Furthermore, pertussis vaccine doesn’t prevent infection and transmission. Vaccinated individuals can carry and spread pertussis, falsifying the claim that vaccination is necessary for “herd immunity”.

            Widespread vaccination can cause evolution of pathogen strains into potentially even more virulent forms. For example, the use of the pertussis vaccine has resulted in a genetic shift so that today the dominant strains in circulation are not only resistant to the vaccine and capable of producing more pertussis toxin, but seem to have a selective advantage in infecting individuals who are vaccinated.

            In the 1980s, vaccine manufacturers were facing so many lawsuits for vaccine injury that it threatened public policy, prompting the government to intervene by granting the pharmaceutical companies legal immunity. The Supreme Court has upheld legal immunity for the vaccine manufacturers on the grounds that vaccines are unavoidably unsafe. The law granting this immunity established a separate “court” where parents of vaccine-injured children can go to try to win some compensation, paid for out of a fund that comes from a tax on every dose of vaccine — which is to say the government shifted the financial burden of compensation for vaccine injuries from the manufacturers onto the consumers. Families have been awarded compensation through this court after their children developed autism following vaccination. Former CDC director Julie Gerberding acknowledged after one of these cases that vaccines can cause “symptoms that have characteristics of autism” in children with mitochondrial disorders. After her stint at the CDC, Gerberding went on to head up the vaccine division at Merck.

          • FallsAngel

            There is no measles antibody passed through breast milk, Judith, and YOU KNOW IT! You’ve been told this many times, with many citations. Yet you continue to lie, that is, deliberately posting a falsehood.

          • Mike Stevens

            Why do the antivaxers lie – do they think people will just automatically believe the most outrageous fibs and lies?
            Has everyone lost all rational thought?

        • Please read the article you’re linking to, Jucith. That person didn’t shed the vaccine virus. I was simply one of the 2-3% of people when the vaccine doesn’t fully protect.

        • Got a question for you, Judith..

          What’s the difference between “shedding” and “vaccine failure”?

          Be specific.

          … …

          I will completely understand if you respond with another of your usual copypasta strawmen towards the end of deflecting.

          Or.. tuck your tail and scamper off to the next article that you.. ahem.. googled.

          … …

          You simply lack the knowledge or worse, the personal veracity to check your posted tripe, Judith. That is.. shameful and deserves the condemnation you find yourself on the receiving end of.

        • Mike Stevens Reply

          “Yes it does
          see http://www.sciencemagdot)org/news/2014/04/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time”

          No Judith. How many times do we have to say it? This is a very rare case of secondary vaccine failure, not a case of shedding.
          Stop lying.

        • Mike Stevens Reply

          “Yes it does
          see http://www.sciencemagdot)org/news/2014/04/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time”

          No Judith. How many times do we have to say it?
          This is a very rare case of secondary vaccine failure, not a case of shedding.
          Stop lying.

    • FallsAngel Reply

      Do you have a clue at what age children can get measles vaccine? How old does that baby look?

    • What evidence led you to the conclusion that the baby looks photoshopped? Hint: Of course it’s not the actual baby for confidential reasons.

      That picture is a BABY. BABIES do not get the MMR jab since they are, by definition, under 12 months old. The MMR #1 being given at 12 months is thus given, by definition, to CHILDREN albeit very young children i.e. boddlers/toddlers.

      In other words, that is someone’s offspring who CANNOT be vaccinated (It might help to think of it as a temporary medical exemption.) as opposed to a perfectly-healthy ten-year-old whose parents WON’T vaccinate them.

      As for the shedding trope, two questions:

      1)How do you explain the diseases pre-vaccine?

      2)How do you explain the inverse correlation?

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/039edfd0b996c489314b85f22ec813978c0bc18fe740027cfef2ee465df001c4.jpg

    • 1. Babies are not vaccinated against measles. They don’t mount a good enough immune response to the vaccine. BABIES ARE NOT YET VACCINATED. This is not rocket science.
      2. Among *children* who are vaccinated, the vaccine doesn’t work for 1-2% — that’s one or two kids out of every hundred, who don’t know they aren’t immune until or unless they find out the hard way.
      3. Your unvaccinated child has a 90% chance of catching measles from a single exposure to measles. They then have a 90% chance to pass it on to any baby or unvaccinated child they come into contact with, as well as to any immunocompromised kids (like those who have had treatment for cancer) and those one or two kids for whom the vaccine didn’t work. Do you understand that other parents might not be happy about this?
      4. “How many vaccinated children pass on measles to unvaccinated children through shedding” — Easy to answer: None. Zero. Not a single one. Because unlike the disease, and contrary to the bs myths that anti-vaccinationists pass on endlessly, there has never once, anywhere, been a single recorded instance of secondary transmission of the disease from the vaccine virus. Ever. Anywhere in the world.

      It isn’t photoshopped and you endanger your own children AND other people’s kids through this ignorance. Please don’t.

      • Bull babies are protected by passive antibodies.Giving babies the Hep B vaccine at birth, or any other vaccine before it is at least three months old. is an example of medical ignorance because babies cannot produce antibodies until they’re around 2 to 3 months old.

        • Speaking of medical ignorance: if babies were not capable of producing antibodies, they would die shortly after birth from the microorganisms they are exposed to at birth. So seriously, no, this is completely inaccurate.

          Speaking of medical ignorance: not all diseases are the same, and not all vaccines are the same. When it comes to measles, babies are partially protected by passive immunity from the mother; and the age at which that wears off varies from one infant & mother to the next, so while a baby is reliably protected for the first couple of months, by the age of 5-6 months, there’s a good bet the baby is not protected any more. And a baby that age CAN develop protective antibodies to the MMR vaccine, if maternal antibodies have broken down — but their immune system does not adequately “remember” and they will need an extra booster later, when they’re older.

          For Hep B, however, since babies are not passed maternal antibodies to that, and because the vaccine is extremely effective, vaccination at birth has in fact reduced the burden of chronic Hep B in the population by about 80%. Like I said — not all diseases the same, not all vaccines the same. And details matter.

          None of these things are an argument not to vaccinate. It’s stupid to forego protection against diseases that can and do kill — especially since the complication rate is highest when the youngest babies DO catch these diseases.

          • Speaking of medical ignorance YOU TAKE THE CAKE. Babies ARE protected by maternal antibodies better known as passive antibodies and they CANNOT produce antibodies to the Hep B vaccine: Babies begin to produce
            low levels of their own antibodies between 3 and 6 months before birth.
            However, these are IgM antibodies, immature ‘rough draft’ versions.
            These have much lower affinity for antigens then their mature IgG
            counterparts which are the classically thought of antibody.

            Levels of an infant’s own IgG start to rise after birth, however
            don’t reach a reasonable level until after the child is roughly 1 year
            old. Maternal antibodies start to tail off at around 3 months leaving a
            period highlighted in blue on the graph where infants are particularly
            prone to getting infections.https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2c70f52e5e9c7758cb3dec5dd7132a383f05f1d91e39d88197999afa90142dfc.png

          • I have a reply being held in moderation, presumably because it has links to three studies in it.

            The short answer, however, is the fact that you’ve copied and pasted things about the immune system that you genuinely don’t understand, and you don’t seem to know how much you’re missing, and the real world data say that babies are perfectly capable of developing a long-term, effective immune response to Hep B vaccines, and again: vaccinating children against extremely contagious diseases also protects all the babies around them.

        • Jonathan Graham Reply

          Observe…
          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2c70f52e5e9c7758cb3dec5dd7132a383f05f1d91e39d88197999afa90142dfc.png

          As you can see, even at birth infants can produce IgM antibodies. It’s IgG and IgA which take a few months to ramp up. Unsurprisingly IgM is pretty much the first and predominant response to HepB. So clearly vaccinating for HepB at birth is completely reasonable. It’s only your ignorance which lets you think it’s problematic and your arrogance which allows you to spew it here on Disqus.

          • Now Johnny why didn’t you post the rest of that information:

            In the graph above the darker blue line refers to the antibodies the
            baby receives from the mother in utero, as you mentioned in your
            question.

            As you can see, the red line indicates that babies begin to produce
            low levels of their own antibodies between 3 and 6 months before birth.
            However, these are IgM antibodies, immature ‘rough draft’ versions.
            These have much lower affinity for antigens then their mature IgG
            counterparts which are the classically thought of antibody.

            Levels of an infant’s own IgG start to rise after birth, however
            don’t reach a reasonable level until after the child is roughly 1 year
            old. Maternal antibodies start to tail off at around 3 months leaving a
            period highlighted in blue on the graph where infants are particularly
            prone to getting infections.

          • Jonathan Graham

            I didn’t mention that because it’s incorrect. IgM don’t have lower affinity. In fact someone mentioned that in the notes right below the portion you’re citing which somehow YOU forgot to mention. So as usual you are trying to deceive people.

            Also as stated, not every antigen creates a uniform response from the immune system HepB is, as I mentioned, and cited is generally fought off first by IgM. Often IgM is the only trace you can find of a HepB infection. Which is why there is absolutely nothing wrong with vaccinating infants.

            In any case, you said:

            because babies cannot produce antibodies

            Which is, as you agree is wrong in every respect.

          • I see as usual you pick and choose what you want people to believe. Babies don’t not produce antibodies to any meaningful level until they’re 3 months old and the ONLY reason they are given a vaccine at birth is to help those quacks giving it to pay for their Mercedes much as the only reason you support the drugs companies is so you can pay for yours.

          • Jonathan Graham

            I see as usual you pick and choose what you want people to believe

            Just telling the whole story. Something you forgot to do. IgM is available at birth so when you said

            babies cannot produce antibodies

            You were completely wrong. Now you’re clinging onto some made up belief that having lower levels of antibody production isn’t meaningful.

            There is of course a problem with that. It’s IgM that binds during a bloodtype mismatch. So if the IgM levels are insufficient then there’s no reason to worry about blood types in newborns. Right? That’s your position. Right?

    • Jonathan Graham Reply

      And how many of the vaccinated children pass on measles to unvaccinated children through shedding?

      Zero or so to it it would be difficult to tell. How do we know this? Because if it were possible for an immunocompetent person to get the measles from a tiny amount of attenuated virus which somehow sheds from a vaccinated person. Then it would be far, far, far, far more likely to get the measles just from getting vaccinated. We know that doesn’t happen. I think there might have been one case of this in recorded history. Which means that out of the billions of MV and MR and MMR and MMRV shots. There’s one case of measles. Which means that it’s even worse than those billion to one odds to ever give someone the measles due to shedding.

      The most likely outcome of encountering a significant amount of vaccine strain measles is immunization.

      • FallsAngel Reply

        I’m not even sure that one case of vaccine virus transmitted measles was really documented. It was a letter to the editor of some journal, IIRC and referenced siblings who I believed shared a bed. (Leaving myself an out, LOL.)

      • The Vaccinated Spreading Measles

        The phenomenon of measles infection spread by MMR (live
        measles-mumps-rubella vaccine) has been known for decades. In fact, 20
        years ago, scientists working at the CDC’s National Center for
        Infectious Diseases, funded by the WHO and the National Vaccine Program,
        discovered something truly disturbing about the MMR vaccine: it leads to detectable measles infection in the vast majority of those who receive it.

        Published in 1995 in the Journal of Clinical Microbiology and titled, “Detection of Measles Virus RNA in Urine Specimens from Vaccine Recipients,”
        researchers analyzed urine samples from newly MMR vaccinated
        15-month-old children and young adults and reported their eye-opening
        results as following:

        Measles virus RNA was detected in 10 of 12 children during the 2-week sampling period.

        In some cases, measles virus RNA was detected as early as 1 day or as late as 14 days after the children were vaccinated.

        Measles virus RNA was also detected in the urine samples from all
        four of the young adults between 1 and 13 days after vaccination.

        • Jonathan Graham Reply

          Measles virus RNA was detected in 10 of 12 children during the 2-week sampling period.

          Well a) Virus RNA doesn’t necessarily mean a functioning virus and b) if you have any point at all it would be that there is somehow a reversion to wildtype yet this test is not sufficiently sensitive to do subtyping. It was designed just to test potential cases and only looks at genes assumed to be common to all strains.

          Also isn’t it your position that there’s an enormous difference between ingestion, inhalation and injection? So someone encountering this shedding isn’t going to get infected anyway.

          So all you’ve done is refute Lisa’s argument.

  29. Gina Kate Phillips Reply

    Children under 12months cannot recieve the MMR needle that is who is at risk here. Children with a low immunity to begin with being so new. I would hate if my 4m old contracted this from someone who didnt vacinate. There hasnt been a death in years because the vaccines has kept them at a low rate. Children over 12m who have recieved can still contract MMR but have a better chance fighting it off a vaccine doesnt mean you will never ever contract something it just builds up your bodys protection against something that could potentially be harmful.

    • Jane Jones Reply

      The unvaccinated are not shedding the disease. Unvaccinated does not equal diseased!!! The newly vaccinated are shedding this-and the vaccinated are catching it! So much for the vaccine working! You really need to do some in depth research before you blindly put your faith in a medical system that has failed a whole generation. Vaccine damage is real!

      • AutismDadd Reply

        They don’t get that people MIX. They expect a sanitized world that will cater to a small number of immunocompromised. They expect to be able to Visit Disneyland or WalMart and encounter nothing but vaccinated sheeple.

        • sabelmouse Reply

          except they’re NOT counting on shedding and asymptomatic transmission.
          but assume that unvaccinated are bundles of germs.

          • AutismDadd

            Yea its strange how the SCIENCE proponents are science deniers most of the time.

          • FallsAngel

            No shedding, sabel. You’ve been participating here long enough to know that. Asymptomatic transmission? What are you talking about? Measles is rarely asymptomatic.

          • Get the measles vaccine, and you won’t get the measles—or give it to anyone else. Right? Well, not always. A person fully vaccinated against measles has contracted the disease and passed it on to others. The startling case study contradicts received wisdom about the vaccine and suggests that a recent swell of measles outbreaks in developed nations could mean more illnesses even among the vaccinated.
            http://www.sciencemagdot)org/news/2014/04/measles-outbreak-traced-fully-vaccinated-patient-first-time

          • FallsAngel

            Not in this story.

            “Three young children, including two
            young babies, have caught measles this week from an unvaccinated child,
            according to WA Health’s Virus Watch.”

            And yes, you like to post about that ONE documented case over and over. That’s one out of how many billion measles vaccine doses? You wouldn’t even be able to calculate the number, it’s so small.

          • And Judy’s cited case did not shed and transmit vaccine virus. Judy’s case caught and transmitted wild, virulent measles virus. The only thing that made this case worthy of an article is that it is the first and only time secondary vaccine failure followed by transmission of wild measles virus had been documented.
            As you stated – This case is the only one of its kind out of a billion measles vaccine doses.

            – No shedding of vaccine virus
            – No transmission of vaccine virus
            – Only case of 2ndary measles vaccine failure and transmission of wild measles virus known to history.

            Readers will note that Judy provided an article that has nothing to do with the topic of vaccine shedding and hardly makes the case that the measles vaccine is ineffective what with her article being about a once in a billion+ occurrence.

          • shay simmons

            A person fully vaccinated against measles has contracted the disease and passed it on to others.

            You have to keep citing this case because it’s the only time that has happened.

          • Jonathan Graham

            The startling case study contradicts received wisdom about the vaccine

            What received wisdom? Normally that means from an authoritative source. Please point out where an authoritative source says vaccines are perfect.

          • Mike Stevens

            Again, not an example of shedding virus that causes new infection, Judith.
            You’ve been told this several times for this particular, extremely rare** case of someone who failed to respond to a much earlier vaccine and who much later caught wild measles and infected 2 others.
            So why do you lie so much?

            ** Hint: the clue is in the title of the report:
            “Measles-outbreak-traced-to-fully-vaccinated-patient-for-the-first-time”

        • Jonathan Graham Reply

          They don’t get that people MIX

          Actually if people were better at mixing it would make vaccination easier. The raw number of people to achieve herd immunity is lower than what we often need to present outbreaks because people don’t mix uniformly they clump which is why there have been disease outbreaks in isolated communities.

        • The reality is that there is virtually no health condition that the CDC considers exempt from vaccines. If you have cancer, they will vaccinate you before chemo then as soon as possible after you finish chemo. And if you have an autoimmune condition they vaccinate you before starting meds.

          So the nonsense about “protecting the immunocompromised” is a lie.

          • Proponent

            Your comment/post is a contradiction in and of itself..

            Acleron: “You have a belief system that distorts your ability to process facts.”

            Next?

            … …

            An aside: It’s not like the immunocompromised have anything to worry about.. right?

          • FallsAngel

            Oh, that’s bull. Yes, vaccines do have to be repeated after chemo. Chemo destroys your immune system. Certain autoimmune conditions preclude some vaccines, particularly the live ones.

          • The vast majority of vaccines that the CDC/ACIP have on their “recommended” list are inactivated so even the immunocompromised are “instructed” to get them.

            Pushing HPV vaccine (through legislation or medical coercion) on preteens won’t help herd immunity for the immunocompromised. It will help Merck’s bottom line, though.

          • FallsAngel

            Yes, the immunocompromised are encouraged to get these vaccines because they’re more vulnerable to the illnesses.

            Why are you discussing HPV vaccine in response to a story about measles?

      • FallsAngel Reply

        There is no such thing as “shedding” measles virus. There has never been a documented case of vaccine virus measles. You guys are SOL-the virus is typed in these outbreaks.

        • Jonathan Graham Reply

          Yes, the most infectious disease in the western world is commonly asymptomatic…riiiiiiiiight

        • Disinformation again:

          The National Vaccine Information Center has published an important document relevant to this topic titled “The Emerging Risks of Live Virus & Virus Vectored Vaccines: Vaccine Strain Virus Infection, Shedding & Transmission.” Pages 34-36 in the section on “Measles, Mumps, Rubella Viruses and Live Attenuated Measles, Mumps, Rubella Viruses” discuss evidence that the MMR vaccine can lead to measles infection and transmission.

          Cases highlighted include:

          In 2010, Eurosurveillance published a report about excretion of vaccine strain measles virus in urine and pharyngeal secretions of a Croatian child with vaccine-associated rash illness.[1] A healthy 14-month old child was given MMR vaccine and eight days later developed macular rash and fever. Lab testing of throat and urine samples between two and four weeks after vaccination tested positive for vaccine strain measles virus. Authors of the report pointed out that when children experience a fever and rash after MMR vaccination, only molecular lab testing can determine whether the symptoms are due to vaccine strain measles virus infection. They stated: “According to WHO guidelines for measles and rubella elimination, routine discrimination between aetiologies of febrile rash disease is done by virus detection. However, in a patient recently MMR-vaccinated, only molecular techniques can differentiate between wild type measles or rubella infection or vaccine-associated disease. This case report demonstrates that excretion of Schwartz measles virus occurs in vaccinees.”

          In 2012, Pediatric Child Health published a report describing a healthy 15-month old child in Canada, who developed irritability, fever, cough, conjunctivitis and rash within seven days of an MMR shot.[2] Blood, urine and throat swab tests were positive for vaccine strain measles virus infection 12 days after vaccination. Addressing the potential for measles vaccine strain virus transmission to others, the authors stated, “While the attenuated virus can be detected in clinical specimens following immunization, it is understood that administration of the MMR vaccine to immunocompetent individuals does not carry the risk of secondary transmission to susceptible hosts.

          In 2013, Eurosurveillance published a report of vaccine strain measles occurring weeks after MMR vaccination in Canada. Authors stated, “We describe a case of measlesmumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine-associated measles illness that was positive by both PCR and IgM, five weeks after administration of the MMR vaccine.” The case involved a two-year-old child, who developed runny nose, fever, cough, macular rash and conjunctivitis after vaccination and tested positive for vaccine strain measles virus infection in throat swab and blood tests.[3] Canadian health officials authoring the report raised the question of whether there are unidentified cases of vaccine strain measles infections and the need to know more about how long measles vaccine strain shedding lasts. They concluded that the case they reported “likely represents the existence of additional, but unidentified, exceptions to the typical timeframe for measles vaccine virus shedding and illness.” They added that “further investigation is needed on the upper limit of measles vaccine virus shedding based on increased sensitivity of the RT-PCR-based detection technologies and immunological factors associated with vaccine-associated measles illness and virus shedding.”

          In addition to this evidence for the disease-promoting nature of the measles vaccine, we recently reported on a case of a twice vaccinated adult in NYC becoming infected with measles and then spreading it to two secondary contacts, both of which were vaccinated twice and found to have presumably protective IgM antibodies.

          • Proponent

            Did you bother to fact-check any of this stuff coming from the National Vaccine Information Center, Judith?

            ‘Cause.. it’s simply not true. They are fudging their words.

            From their .pdf..

            “Conclusion

            Live vaccine virus shedding is a possible source of transmission
            of vaccine-strain viral infection but how frequently that occurs is unknown. There is no active surveillance of live virus vaccine shedding and most vaccine strain virus infections likely remain unidentified, untested and unreported.”

            … …

            From the CDC..

            “Note: Genotype identification by a WHO reference laboratory (CDC or a public health laboratory that has validated their measles virus sequence analysis) is required to distinguish wild type from vaccine strain if vaccinated within 18 days of rash onset.”

            … …

            “Reporting to CDC

            Since continuous endemic measles transmission has been eliminated, measles is an immediately notifable disease. Measles cases should be reported promptly (within 24 hours) by the state health department to the CDC or directly to Susan Redd at NCIRD, CDC by telephone: 404-639-8763 or by e-mail. Information on confrmed cases should then also be electronically reported by the state health department to the National Notifable Diseases Surveillance System (NNDSS) with the next regularly scheduled
            electronic transmission.”

            (Source: CDC | Surveillance Manual | Measles )

          • Judith – check this out. A vaccinated Salt Lake City resident has come down with measles:

            KUTV, Salt Lake County confirms first measles case since 2011
            by Larry D. Curtis, Tuesday, February 7th 2017

          • Proponent

            True or False?

            For the 2 – 5% that don’t respond to the vaccine, in the event of an infection the vaccine should still provide some protection and prevent the serious side effects of measles, that can lead to brain damage and death.

          • FallsAngel

            I like that you’re so happy someone has measles! /s

          • It’s a factual statement. You’re the one making false accusations that I’m happy about it. MYOB!

          • kfunk937

            A vaccinated person who did not seroconvert is representative of about 1-3% of vaccinees; the article did not indicate (probably because it’s PHI and all contacts have been identified) whether the person lost previously acquired immunity through illness, such as happened with the tragic recent case of a woman in Washington who died from measles due to immunosuppression. It does not say what the circumstances were, only that a case occurred. Why do you suppose that a single case of measles is newsworthy? Could it be because it is relatively rare, and that legitimate concern exists regarding the maintenance of community immunity? Hmmn.

            The article did state that the person had travelled abroad, thus importing the measles to Utah. The article did not mention any additional cases, which suggests that to date, there have been none (it would have been newsworthy).

            Yay vaccines! Yay measles elimination in the Americas, such that the only cause of outbreaks currently is importation!

          • kfunk937

            Not a single one of those stories documents a case of measles vaccine shedding.

            Which leads to the question, why do anti-vaccine activists always have to lie?

      • Gina Kate Phillips Reply

        Did you read the article? The child that was infected with measels contracted it in bali! Im sure all children and adults are all vaccinated over there shedding the virus around so tell me how that works if its the vaccinated people are the ones giving the virus to everyone.

      • shay simmons Reply

        “The newly vaccinated are shedding this”

        Explain why there are no measles outbreaks in the two states (WV and MS) with the highest vaccination rates.

        • Those diseases were already on a sharp decline before vaccines were introduced, Vaccines are responsible for untold misery and suffering. Auto-immune diseases, allergies, cancers, ASD, fibromyalgia, CIDP, MS.and every other conceivable nerve disease.There’s only one safe way to achieve a good disease free health and that’s with a good diet and proper hygiene.

          • Except of course you have no evidence you can point to for any of your claims.

          • How would you know. Ron Roy certainly seems closer to the truth than you do.

          • Mike Stevens

            How is claiming the diseases (measles, mumps, rubella) were on a “sharp decline” before vaccination even anywhere “close to the truth”, when the facts are that prevaccine everyone still got them?

          • Everyone got them? Come on. Can you dispense with the hyperbole? How common is Rotovirus, Rabies, and Hepatitis B among countries which don’t vaccinate for them?

            Most of the vaccines are for diseases that aren’t even on the radar for First-World industrialized nations. The vaccine industry has gone bonkers; inoculating infants with multiple vaccines while some die mysteriously with crib deaths.

            Until the mortuaries are taken-over by toxicologists outside of the medical fraternity echo-chamber, these deaths will invariably be attributed to something besides vaccines.

          • “The vaccine industry has gone bonkers; inoculating infants with multiple vaccines while some die mysteriously with crib deaths.”

            The number of crib deaths have steadily gone down with increases to the vaccine schedule. Are you suggesting that infant vaccines prevent crib deaths, phoebe?

          • Proponent

            Phoebe: “Most of the vaccines are for diseases that aren’t even on the radar for First-World industrialized nations.”

            Odd thing to state in a comments section to an article, titled; “Measles Alert: Non-vaccinated Child Spreads Measles to Three Children in Perth”.

            ‘Sides, and more to the point.. vaccines are victims of their own success..

            “Vaccination coverage in this region is generally high. As a result,
            vaccine-preventable childhood diseases like polio and measles have been absent in most countries for the past few decades. This has led to complacency toward the diseases and has unfortunately made vaccines, rather than the diseases, the focus of debate and discussion.”

            (Source: UNICEF | “Tracking anti-vaccination sentiment in Eastern European social media networks”)

          • Proponent

            Phoebe: “Can you dispense with the hyperbole?”

            And then, in the near same e-breath..

            Phoebe: “The vaccine industry has gone bonkers; inoculating infants with multiple vaccines while some die mysteriously with crib deaths.

            Until the mortuaries are taken-over by toxicologists outside of the medical fraternity echo-chamber, these deaths will invariably be attributed to something besides vaccines.”

            … …

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/117ff8a6c42872b9209c28db2f31d4384105ebc63938ab2a96ba9bbdaf5405ab.jpg

          • Mike Stevens

            You were talking about MMR.
            yes, EVERYONE got those diseases prevaccine.

          • FallsAngel

            Agreed. And to answer Phoebe’s insincere question, everyone got rotavirus by two pre-vaccine, which was just 2006. Hepatitis B cases weren’t ubiquitous, but there was enough of it and it’s a nasty disease to get, especially for babies. Rabies is not part of the routine vaccination schedule anywhere.

          • EVERYONE got those diseases prevaccine.

            Except for the people that didn’t, right?

            [Why am I responding to this clown?]

          • They’re not reporting vaccine caused SIDS it’s that simple.

          • shay simmons

            “They’re not reporting vaccine caused SIDS”

            Because there is none. SIDS by definition lacks a known cause — that’s why autopsies are required before that determination is made.

          • shay simmons

            “Most of the vaccines are for diseases that aren’t even on the radar for First-World industrialized nations”

            Goodness, I wonder why that is. Could it be that vaccines are a victim of their own success?

          • Not! How about sanitation, waste treatment facilities, transportation, and refrigeration.

            Vaccines barely even work, at best!

            Woof!

          • shay simmons

            Let’s see — born in 1955, grew up in a white-collar suburb in the Midwest. Indoor plumbing, clean water, refrigerators, safe food.

            And in spite of this, I caught measles, mumps, and chickenpox, as did 90% of my fellow Americans.

          • And in spite of this, I caught measles, mumps, and chickenpox, as did 90% of my fellow Americans.

            Are you saying that 90% of Americans in 1955 “caught” all three of these?

          • FallsAngel

            Yes, she is. I tried to tell you that last night. You wouldn’t believe that “universal” meant “everyone”.

          • shay simmons

            “Phoebe” will go to his/her grave insisting that s/he knows better than every medical historian and forensic epidemiologist in the world; and that sanitation, waste treatment facilities, transportation, and refrigeration eliminated VPDs. No amount of anecdotal or medical evidence will convince him/her.

          • shay simmons

            “Are you saying that 90% of Americans in 1955 “caught” all three of these?”

            Nope. I’m saying that these diseases were universal prior to vaccination, but so were sanitation, good nutrition, and good medical care.

            You might want to work on your reading comprehension.

          • What? You just said “and so did 90% of Americans”

            Be explicit, and dispense with the miasmic pharmaspeak. What do you mean by that?

            You need to work on your English composition.

          • Nope. I’m saying that these diseases were universal prior to vaccination

            So you’re saying that 100% of Americans caught these?

          • shay simmons

            Nope. I see now what your problem is, you don’t have the necessary education to understand what is meant when epidemiologists use the term “universal.”

          • OMG. Here is what the Oxford English Dictionary has to say:

            Relating to or done by all people or things in the world or in a particular group; applicable to all cases

            Applicable to all cases. Did you read that?

            Do you know what the word all means dear?

            This means in a group of 10, all cases would be ten; or ¹⁰⁄₁₀.

            This is 100% Shay. The problem with you is you lack any sort of left brain activity. I think if an MRI was done on your brain whilst you were typing that, there would be an asymmetry evident. Total left-brain blackout.

            You’re just using imaginative concepts and a fantastic conception of history.

          • shay simmons

            Epidemiology-specific usage. Did you look for that?

            Of course not.

          • LOL. Straw-clutchy Shay Simmons. “B’But..”

          • shay simmons

            I’ll give you a hint — it’s from my third reference:

            “Before the introduction of vaccine in 1967, mumps was a universal disease of childhood. Most children were infected by age 14 years, with peak incidence among children aged 5 through 9 years (117,118). Outbreaks among the military were common, especially during times of mobilization (119,120).”

          • Well. I think that the author is taking the sort of literary freedom that you shouldn’t have with these serious topics. I would use the term “relatively common”, and only among the populations that have been verified.

            For instance, what about Native Americans and Aboriginal populations the world over? Is mumps more a product of cities (crowding) and malnutrition than a so-called “universal” infection.

            Maybe it was nearly universal at certain times and places, but I sincerely doubt that it was universal across all cultures and times considering the great variation in living space, diet, and sanitation.

            I would also like to add that antibodies for mumps do not indicate that the subject actually became ill from mumps at sometime in the past.

          • shay simmons

            It’s not literary freedom. It’s industry-specific terminology.

            Let’s get back to your original claim, shall we? “How about sanitation, waste treatment facilities, transportation, and refrigeration.”

            The US decline in measles morbidity was observed after 1963, in mumps morbidity after 1967, and in chickenpox morbidity after 1995 ( I’ve posted my sources). The average American child in the 1950-1990s already lived in a world where indoor plumbing, sewers, refrigerators and safe food were the rule and not the exception.

          • Whatever. The truncated CDC graphs might give you that impression, but if you look at a longer time period, it’s easy to see that the majority of the decline occurred before the introduction of vaccines. One might expect the downward trend to continue, vaccines or not.

          • shay simmons

            How long a time period do you propose? Give me some years.

          • I think it’s most helpful to look at all historical data. Obviously, this varies by disease and country.

          • shay simmons

            Not an answer. We were discussing measles, mumps and chickenpox in the US. How long a time period?

          • FallsAngel

            No. One can never project a trajectory from the “trend”. Didn’t you take statistics?

          • Misinterpretation. I said one might expect the trend to continue. I am not saying that this trend could have been forecast.

            Didn’t you ever take English 101?

          • FallsAngel

            Yes, I did take English 101. However, your statement is still false. You can’t make any inference, you can’t “expect” anything. And it is beyond stupid to think that the death rate for as serious a disease as measles to go to zero.

          • Of course is it. You are just saying the obvious and implying that I disagree with it. GTFO.

          • Well, then you are doubly stupid to make inferences about the vaccine’s effect on an already declining curve.

          • Your problem is you obviously say things without using your brain. It’s almost like you are just pulling numbers out of a hat.

            Where did you go to school? Compton?

          • shay simmons

            The U of SMC.

            I’ve posted my sources.

          • kfunk937

            Am I the only one getting a Fendelsworth vibe from “Phoebe”?

          • shay simmons

            I’m waiting for the scatology to appear — but then, I’ve only read a few of his/her posts.

          • I’m waiting for you to explain what you mean by “90%” and “universal”.

          • shay simmons

            Of course you are — you have no background in immunology or epidemiology, and don’t understand these terms in that context. This is probably the underlying cause of your inability to grasp how vaccines work.

          • I know how they work you condescending troll. You make the claim, you provide the proof.

            You have no background in immunology either.

          • shay simmons

            Measles Elimination in the US, op cit.

            Manual for the Surveillance of Vaccine-Preventable Diseases, Ch 17, Varicella.

            Prevention of Measles, Rubella, Congenital Rubella Syndrome, and Mumps, 2013: Summary Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP)

          • shay simmons

            Nope, no background in immunology, but I did work as a bioterrorism/public health emergency planner for six years and was fortunate to learn from and work with some great RN epidemiologists.

          • kfunk937

            Not scatological exactly, but s/he did offer to “pee on my fireplug”. Then in reply to one of phido’s posts on sciencemag, s/he applauded and said meeting Fendelsworth would be also awesome, or somesuch. Obvs no one else had mentioned Fendelsworth to that point.

            Ick. I wish these trolls would get a different hobby.

          • shay simmons

            Well, I haven’t seen all of his/her comments, but that’s undoubtedly why s/he hides them.

          • Jonathan Graham

            While I originally passed it off as juvenilia, come to think of it AutismDadd is pretty fixated on poop in his comments. Probably not Fendlesworth but maybe these folk all need to get out more.

          • FallsAngel

            Lesse here-Born in 1949. Grew up in a fairly prosperous blue-collar steel town near Pittsburgh. Indoor plumbing, clean water, refrigerators, safe food, just like you.

            Now, in the early days, my mom didn’t have a car of her own, but my dad had one that she used on weekends/evenings to buy groceries. My parents also rented a food locker (freezer) where they froze produce they grew, and sides of beef. Later, they bought their own freezer. Much later, my mom had her own car. When we needed to go to the dr, we walked or took a cab. Sometimes, the dr. came to our house, but that was on its way out by the mid-50s, which is about as far back as my memory goes. Health care was as good as it got in the 50s, after all, we were basically suburban Pittsburgh. (Dr. Salk’s employer)

            No sewage running down the streets, stuff like that. No bathing in the river.

            My brother and I also caught, contracted, whatever you want to call it, all of those diseases. They were ubiquitous, something you refuse to believe.

          • Mike Stevens

            “How common is Rotovirus, Rabies, and Hepatitis B among countries which don’t vaccinate for them?”

            We were talking about measles, rubella and mumps. Please pay attention.
            And while I have got yours, it is “rotavirus”, not “rotovirus”. Pretty much every child has had an infection with this, globally, not just the USA. It has dramatically dropped in incidence in those countries where vaccine is in use.
            In some countries where Hep B vaccine was not in use previously, such as in Africa and the far East, chronic Hep B affected up to 20% of the population. For example, 17.6% of adults in the Phillippines have chronic Hep B infection. The incidence of acute Hep B which cleared is even higher.

          • shay simmons

            “Those diseases were already on a sharp decline before vaccines were introduced”

            Please trot out the disease morbidity statistics that prove your statement, Ron.

            Morbidity — not mortality.

          • Mike Stevens

            The diseases (measles, mumps, rubella) were not on a “sharp
            decline” before vaccination.
            Prevaccine pretty much everyone got them, as you have agreed previously.

  30. If getting the mmr vaccine prevents the spread of measles then these kids shouldn’t of got it…pretty simple logic…but of course they are going to blame the unvaccinated child….so maybe people should re think giving these shots since they don’t actually prevent anything

      • I never got one of these and im still alive and healthy lol I don’t know what to say. I know people with kids who have gotten extremely sick and now have autism after this specific shot and it’s hard to believe ALL of those children just “happened” to get it after this shot. I would rather play It safe than sorry. My daughter has gotten some shots yes but I choose which ones I feel are safe. She isn’t going to die over not getting 1 or 2 out of the 40 they get now a days

        • Your inability to understand is not a valid argument.

          And vaccines don’t cause autism. We’ve known for years that the unvaccinated develop autism at the same rate as the vaccinated, so it’s obvious vaccines don’t cause it.

    • Teresa, they cannot answer. All they can do is regurgitate the talking points they get from whoever hires them to troll. God knows, I don’t have time to spend trying to prove that vaccines WORK, when they clearly do not (see article that this comment thread is on).

    • shay simmons Reply

      The MMR does not work 100% of the time. Neither does birth control. In your world does that mean birth control doesn’t actually prevent pregnancy?

      • If it doesn’t always work what exactly is the point of giving it?

        • Go ahead and ask the doctor for the insert and read the percentages yourself

        • Simply because it drastically reduces your chances of being injured or dying from those diseases.

          • Based off the doctors word….like I said ask for the insert and read about it 🙂

          • I’ve never had it and im still alive lol so yeah thanks for that info

          • shay simmons

            Your viewpoint seems to be based on “If it didn’t happen to me or anyone I know, then it didn’t happen.”

          • It happens im sure….but what are the percentages? I’ll have to research and see

          • shay simmons

            The percentages have been provided in this discussion multiple times.

            You’re used to a world without infectious childhood diseases, so you think that’s normal. Fifty years ago it wasn’t.

          • I know someone who recently died from a drunk driver not cool -_-

          • So what if they did? Sober driving doesn’t prevent 100% of accidents so by your own logic, there’s NO POINT to sober driving.

            If using your own logic is absurd and ‘not cool’…well….

          • Sober driving is not related to vaccines…I can die walking across the street. Anyways I don’t really care to sit here and argue over our opinions. It doesn’t matter to me what you think and obviously anything I say or do isn’t going to change your thoughts. I personally would rather be safe than sorry I have witnessed to many kids getting sick and its not coincidental.

          • Of course not. I clearly stated it was a logic comparison. You’re right, you could die walking across the street but I bet you still look both ways.

            Evidence will change my mind.

            Remember, your comment was something like:

            [If vaccines don’t always work to prevent diseases then why bother with them?]

            That maps to:

            If X doesn’t always work to prevent danger Y, then why bother with it?

            Insert the variables from the driving example and you get:

            If sober driving doesn’t always work to prevent accidents then why bother with it?

            As should be obvious by now, those arguments are completely parallel – either both of them work or neither of them do.

            “Better safe than sorry.” So show me evidence that any disease is less dangerous than the vaccines.

            As for getting sick and it’s not coincidental, that’s useful since you’ll be able to show me evidence that’s more robust than Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc – kindly do so.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d8988160b0ef8678b1253af43add2ff6030d29d1fbd8f61601b844dffcb78290.png
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/409e8cee1ef729c545ede8de5dc1c1c714df7e997726183d93bfb35cf71c2d54.jpg

          • It won’t let me post links on here…I’ve tried and it won’t post -_-

          • You don’t need to post links to post evidence.

            For example:

            You can post pictures so you could post a meme with evidence:

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d8988160b0ef8678b1253af43add2ff6030d29d1fbd8f61601b844dffcb78290.png

            Second, I could cite a study:

            Have you read Baxter et al?

            Third, I could cite a case and that might help prove some point:

            Have you read the Cedillo case yet?

            Fourth, you can post patent numbers if you’re proving something exists:

            Portable RF ID tag and barcode reader
            US 5640002 A

            Fifth, you could post numbers. I’ve chosen one at random to show you:

            NEJM199408253310802

          • I don’t honestly feel like copying and pasting or typing random numbers and no I haven’t read baxters…I can though I’m open to reading anything

          • I already tried spacing the link didn’t work and it’s a huge page of shit so I don’t have time to sit here and copy everything nor do I care to because it won’t matter

          • I would have to do it word for word for some reason it won’t allow ml me to copy and paste whole sentence it turns it into a link and I don’t have time to do word for word unfortunately also. It’s not just because so please do not judge without knowing the whole story

          • No it will not let me copy and paste it turns it into a link I’ve tried with my other comments to another lady and it wouldn’t even let her see my picturestomach either so no that’s not true at all

          • I don’t have time to sit here and type work for wordinner I have a 4 month old I’m sorry

          • FallsAngel

            You seem to have plenty of time to post on here!

          • Yeah a quick comment not go on one site read it go back to the other type a word then keep switching I’m on my phone not a computer

          • I even tried posting screenshots won’t work either I don’t know if it’s because I’m on a phone or what

          • You almost have 20,00 Disqus comments. I would say that you are the most prolific PharmaTroll® on the web.

          • It’s pretty pathetic to resort to upvoting your own posts, and then accuse others of being trolls, Miss brand-spankin-new-sock-puppet.

          • I’m not sure why everyone is commenting on my comment lol all I talked about was the shit “preventing” which is obviously does NOT do lol so yeah I don’t really care what everyone else thinks. We all have different opinions buddy you have yourself a great day while I now think about my dead friend

          • Lol to you yes but to others no…like I said everyone has a different opinion. I may think you are wrong and u may think I am wrong so who’s really wrong?

          • FallsAngel

            This is not a matter of “opinion”. That’s not how science works, Teresa. The statistics show that in this case, I’m right and you’re wrong.

          • The statistics you read on though….I’ve read many things and they are not all the same

          • FallsAngel

            Moving the goalposts, eh? Now it’s not “your opinion vs mine” but “your stats vs mine”.

            Please cite these “differing” statistics. Depending on the study, you may get 95% efficacy in one study and 93% in another, etc, but the consensus of studies shows the vaccine is highly effective in preventing disease. I just wish all the vaccines were this effective.

          • I’ve read alot of stuff and it’s biased…I can post about this site saying one thing and you can post about another saying the complete opposite.I can’t take your word just because the statistics on a site say this or that.

          • FallsAngel

            The worldwide scientific consensus on these statistics is that mine are correct.

          • FallsAngel

            The CDC, the World Health Organization, the ECDC (European Center for Disease Prevention and Control), Health Canada (Canadian version), the Australian Health Protection Committee (AHPC) and the Communicable Disease Network Australia (CDNA), and senior Department of Health and Ageing, etc.

          • Yeah but they are allowing toxic levels of stuff In these shots ….

          • shay simmons

            What vaccine ingredient is present in toxic levels?

          • shay simmons

            The PC is not letting me view the entire document. Where did you get these figures?

          • A doctor did a study I wish I could upload the darn link

          • A doctor did a study based off the inserts that came with the vaccinations

          • shay simmons

            Doctor’s name and name of study will get me there.

          • Google this….Vaccine ingredients a comprehensive guide…should be the first page 🙂

          • Look for Megan pond she’s the author who posted it there are several doctors named on this thing dr Ratajczak is one

          • Did it not comment? I replied earlier… Megan pond is the author and there a few doctor’s named here is one Dr Ratajczak

          • She basically discusses what’s in them..explaining what an ingredient is and then talks about the levels in it and so on its pretty crazy how much is in just one shot. To me or you it wouldn’t be that much but to a 6 to 8 lb baby or a toddler it’s alot

          • kfunk937

            Why post something listing aluminium-based adjuvant when none is used in the MMR and MMRV vaccines?

            Not that there is credible evidence supporting the claim that aluminium-based adjuvant poses any risk in the amounts present in vaccines in the first place.

          • This site talks about the mmr this was a comment to my discussion with shay

          • kfunk937

            Fair enough. Your words were “these shots,” so the meaning was unclear.

            What evidence do you have that suggests that aluminium-based adjuvants pose a danger in the amounts present in vaccines?

          • If you look at the site you can read it 🙂 for some reason I am not allowed to copy and paste anything it turns it into a link

        • FallsAngel Reply

          One dose of the vaccine protects 95% of recipients, probably for life. Is that not good enough for you? Then get two, the recommendation. That protects 97-99% of recipients.

          • No…she’ll have life long immunity catching it naturally without all the other toxins and if it’s 95% than 97 to 99 why are these kids still getting it??????

          • FallsAngel

            Two of those three kids were NOT VACCINATED, and we don’t know the vaccine status of the other. The person who infected them was unvaccinated. What vaccinated kids are getting measles? Over and over, in outbreak after outbreak, the vast majority of measles cases are in the UNVACCINATED!

          • Why is getting the measles so scary anyways ?? I know unvaxxed kids get it…it’s better to naturally get it and have life long immunity.

          • FallsAngel

            30% of measles cases have complications, ranging from diarrhea to death. About 20% are hospitalized, usually for pneumonia. Measles can cause permanent hearing loss, vision loss, encephalitis with permanent brain damage, and in a small number of cases, a terrible disease called Sub-acute Sclerosing panencepalitis, (SSPE) which is ALWAYS fatal.

            The vaccine gives long term, presumably life-long, immunity.

            These are not opinions, Teresa, they are facts. Do learn the difference!

          • They why do I know kids who had it and are just fine?

          • FallsAngel

            Because 70% do not have complications. And for the math challenged, 70% is the same thing as 99.9999999%. But really, it’s a little more than 2/3, meaning the other almost 1/3 do have complications.

          • kfunk937

            Did you perhaps leave out a “not” here?:

            And for the math challenged, 70% is the same thing as 99.9999999%.

            Or is my snark meter in need of adjustment?

          • FallsAngel

            Had to think about that one a minute. What I meant was, to some of these anti-vaxers, that 70% have no complications means that virtually no one gets a complication. They don’t understand that 30% with complications is a lot, particularly pre-vaccine when nearly 100% of kids got measles. When you think about it, 30% of the general population had some complication from their bout with measles. The “lucky” ones just got diarrhea, or maybe an uncomplicated ear infection that didn’t leave them with hearing loss.

            Is that more clear?

          • shay simmons

            “it’s better to naturally get it and have life long immunity.”
            Tell that to my youngest brother (born pre-MMR). Make sure he has his hearing aids in, first.

          • FallsAngel

            As my South African friend would say, “Shame”. (Meaning it’s a shame, not shame on him!)

          • Sorry to hear that 🙁 but I still wouldn’t give it to My daughter. I just don’t believe it’s that effective and I don’t like that it’s a combo shot

          • shay simmons

            VPDS don’t give a rats ass what you ‘believe.’

          • kfunk937

            I’m thinking that the third “young” child may not have had the second MMR dose; the “babies” may have never had any. It’s hard to tell from the article.

          • FallsAngel

            That was my thought too. It’s also possible, given how AV Australia is, that s/he might not have even had the first dose.

          • Jane Jones

            EXCEPT THEY ARE NOT!!! Even the media which is all pro vaxx is reporting these outbreaks in the VACCINATED! Whole bunch of vaccines that just do not work!!

          • FallsAngel

            Good Grief! Look at the Headline. Here it is again for your edification: ”

            “Measles Alert: Non-vaccinated Child Spreads Measles to Three Children in Perth”

            Do you know what Non-vaccinated means? Two of these children were small babies, meaning they were too young to be vaccinated. Australia recommends MMR vaccine at age 12 months.
            http://www. mydr. com. au/kids-teens-health/vaccination-australian-standard-vaccination-schedule

            The story doesn’t tell us the vaccination status of the third child.

          • shay simmons

            “she’ll have life long immunity catching it naturally”
            She’ll also be a very sick little girl, with a 20% chance of ending up in the hospital.

          • She’s actually very healthy and happy 🙂

          • shay simmons

            Because you don’t need it, or because you don’t think it works?

          • shay simmons

            Would you advise sexually active young men and women not to use it?

    • Teresa, where in the above article does it state the vaccination status of the three children who caught the measles from the unvaccinated index case?
      Answer – It doesn’t.
      The only information we have from the above article is that “3 young children, including two young babies, have caught measles this week from an unvaccinated child…”

      A rational assumption would be that a “young baby” would be less than 1 year of age, and knowing the Australian recommendation for the first MMR dose is at 12 months it is logical to assume that the 2 “young babies” were not vaccinated so all the anti-vaccine cultists who are accusing the MMR of failing or being “ineffective” are expressing an opinion based on facts not in evidence.

      Please provide evidence any of the 3 children were vaccinated.

      • 3 young children, including two young babies, have caught measles this week from an unvaccinated child….well why say anything about being unvaccinated then? One would assume if the 3 were unvaccinated it wouldn’t matter if the 4th was….

  31. Judith below posted: “Dr. Gregory Poland is Professor of Medicine and founder and leader of Mayo Clinic’s Vaccine Research Group. Poland is one of the world’s most admired, most advanced thinkers in the field of vaccinology.”

    She got that right.. and that’s about it, where her posts to this discussion is concerned.

    What does Dr. Poland have to say about his oft-misquoted, misinterpreted paper cited by anti-vaxxers?

    Let’s have a read..

    “Tell me about the measles vaccine.

    On the one hand, we have the most transmissible disease known in humans, and on the other hand we have an excellent vaccine – which is not a perfect vaccine – and we don’t induce immunity in somewhere between 2 to 5 percent of the people who receive it. When everybody is vaccinated, the only cases you’ll see are those in cases who are immunized, though you’ll see very few cases compared to a population that doesn’t have high levels of herd immunity. This is counterintuitive, and people misunderstand it. For any other disease, that’s an out-of-the-ballpark, grand slam vaccine, but with measles, it’s not because of the high transmissibility and the high level of herd immunity needed.”

    “Is measles likely to return to the U.S. for good?

    Every time you add another sub population of people who are not protected, you grow the pool of the susceptibles, and if you have a large enough pool spread across enough areas, you can reestablish measles. If the only susceptibles were those in whom the vaccine failed, you would only have very small outbreaks of one or two or three people spread across time. The reason this is a big issue is that we do have this undercurrent of vaccine-hesitant and vaccine-refusing patients. And we do have failure. The point is, to say the obvious, that we have an excellent vaccine, but we find ourselves in a unique situation right now. We’ve eliminated measles through indigenous transmission, but we have a small failure rate of the vaccine, and a growing sub population of people who won’t get the vaccine. The point in my editorial was that we might be able to solve all those problems by developing an even better vaccine. But that’s what people misunderstand.”

    (Source: Forbes | “Vaccine Researcher Gregory Poland Says Measles Jab Is Amazingly Effective But Not Perfect” )

    • Jane Jones Reply

      Or perhaps this vaccine is not effective…we know the numbers and the numbers say-if you are vaccinated you have a chance of catching the measles. The ignorance here is that the vaccinated are being lied to about how this is spreading. Unvaccinated children are not spreading this-vaccinated adults who have lost this immunity are not spreading it—look to the newly vaccinated who shed but are not told this! On top of it all -the measles is rarely a deadly disease so just stop with all the nonsense and fear mongering!

      • FallsAngel Reply

        Perhaps, but you’re wrong! We know the efficacy rates. It’s 95% after one dose, and 97%-99% after two doses.

        There has never been a documented case of vaccine virus measles, EVER! IOW, the vaccine does not “shed”.

      • Lots of false information in this comment.

        The unvaccinated are about 30 times as likely to become infected with (and spread) measles compared to the vaccinated.

        The recently vaccinated are zero percent likely to “shed” the disease to others. Anyone who says otherwise is lying, plain and simple.

        • Jane Jones Reply

          Why then the high rates of infection in the vaccinated population? Measles,mumps.whooping cough? Seems your vaccines are not working! Also-many wards inhospitals ask for the recently vaccinated to not enter-why do you think that is? Yeah-someone’s lying and it’s the pharma trolls!

          • See if you can logic this out, Jane Jones:
            If 100% of the population was vaccinated against a disease and the vaccine effectiveness was 95% where would the cases of the disease come from – the vaccinated or the unvaccinated?

            Think hard…

          • I take it the question was too difficult for you, Jane Jones.
            I should have guessed as much.

            Readers will note the anti-vaccinationists are willing to state unevidenced assertions and portray biased opinion as fact but when it comes to answering simple questions or providing evidence they scamper away from the issue like cockroaches when the light is flipped on.

          • kfunk937

            O/T: but I see that I’m am not alone in having been gang-flagged here at Mum Central. Either it reflects lax moderation, or the some of the commentariate here are allergic to anything that counters their pre-conceived (pun not intended) notions. Alternatively, a certain poster may have resented having her fabrications questioned.

            Shameful.

          • FallsAngel

            Just took a break from cleaning to look at Disqus and look what I found! My post about the gang-flagging was sent to moderation, too!

          • AutismDadd

            So? Moderation serves a purpose. We don’t want fake news posted.

          • Cleaning? Let me guess, laundering money for your PharmaShill buddies?

          • It’s because they have no coherent response to the facts.

          • AutismDadd

            More likely the flagging is accurate and necessary. Try cleaning up your act and see how that goes.

          • Hi Jane.
            Please read my comment again. If there’s a part that you don’t understand, feel free to ask me to elaborate. Otherwise, you are proving Reality022’s point.

          • “Why then the high rates of infection in the vaccinated population?”

            There aren’t. In all these outbreaks, the unvaccinated get infected at much higher rates than the vaccinated. It’s basic math. Before the populations were (mostly) vaccinated, the outbreaks were much, much, larger.

            “Also-many wards inhospitals ask for the recently vaccinated to not enter-why do you think that is?”

            Such as? Many anti-vaccine conspiracy websites make this claim, but can never provide any evidence, and doctors and hospitals are constantly saying it isn’t true. There’s only one common vaccine that’s capable of shedding the disease (varicella), and only in extremely rare circumstances are they supposed to avoid contact with people vaccinated with varicella vaccine. These same circumstances involve people who are also extremely vulnerable to the actual disease, so it’s very important that anlone in close contact have already been vaccinated.

            Why do anti-vaxxers lie so much?

          • shay simmons

            Why then the high rates of infection in the vaccinated population?

            Ask your math teacher for your money back.

            Example: A small rural school has 300 vaccinated and 6 unvaccinated children. During a measles outbreak where all of the children are exposed, statistically speaking 3% of the vaccinated (9) and 80% of the unvaccinated (5) will come down with it.

            Is it honest — or merely dumb — to claim this proves vaccinated children are almost twice as likely to get sick?

      • shay simmons Reply

        we know the numbers and the numbers say-if you are vaccinated you have a chance of catching the measles.

        The numbers also say you have a much higher chance of catching the measles if you are NOT vaccinated.

        Also, shedding doesn’t happen with the MMR.

  32. Eva: “But don’t take my word for it research it for yourselves.”

    I have. Nothing you posted is true.

    And what you did post can be addressed by the following..

    “Bare assertion fallacy:

    This fallacy is often accompanied by a phrase such as “Trust me.” It might be considered a self-referential appeal to authority. A more rigorous and constrained discussion might allow you to ask “What is your evidence for that claim?” However, when bare assertions are constantly thrown out as red herrings, it may be best to abandon any hope of real dialogue.”

    (Source: Logfall – Logical Fallacies | “Bare assertion fallacy” )

      • Does childish petulance get you very far in the discussions you engage in, Jane Jones?

        I’m thinking.. no.

      • 1)How do you know Pro isn’t already up-to-date?

        2)Suppose Great-Granny Edith smokes like a chimney and drinks like a fish but tells you that you shouldn’t smoke because it’s bad for your health and the same applies to drinking heavily. Is it bad, good or neutral for your health to smoke and/or drink excessively?

        • Jonathan Graham Reply

          I find that’s an odd assertion too. Why wouldn’t people who believe vaccines are safe and effective be up-to-date? Perhaps it’s just a side effect of the need to pretend people who are saying: “But wait where’s the evidence?” are all shills. Almost as if they can’t fathom someone being sincerely wrong. Perhaps because that hits a little too close to home for them.

          I recently had a full set of titers done. My measles and mumps both failed (not exactly lottery winning odds I’m a single shot MMR kid) and I’m off to get that boosted on Wednesday (as well as my DTaP).

  33. AutismDadd Reply

    There you have it folks. Vaccine fear mongering propaganda 101 including the “KILLER DISEASE” reference.

  34. Lots of false information in this comment. If anyone wants examples, feel free to ask.

  35. Again we see that those quickest to criticize vaccination are often the quickest to prove their ignorance of it.

    • No, test all the kids in the vaccinated herd, you will find that at least 1 in 16 will presently be infected with whooping cough, WITHOUT symptoms. Vaccines stop symptoms, not spread. Then they fail, and the kids get whooping cough or mumps anyway!

    • Yes – they follow me from my Disqus account and whenever I post they come. It is like a hive of pharma wasps.

    • They certainly are – it is like a hive of wasps suddenly descending. mass pharma trolling.

      • angela coral eisenhauer Reply

        Pro disease conspiracies, hahaha! the shills are getting more pathetic every day.

        • Mike Stevens Reply

          Still pretending you are a qualified pathologist, Angela?

  36. FallsAngel Reply

    Can someone explain why so many comments that were previously in good standing have gone into “moderation”? Do we have a flagging crew here?

  37. I see that quite a few posts have been sent to moderation limbo.
    It also appears that this discussion is unmoderated leaving the door open to abuse of Disqus.
    Quickly going through the posts sent to moderation shows the folks and number of posts removed/moderated:

    On Its Own Merits – 7
    Proponent – 4
    Falls Angel – 3
    Reality022 – 3
    kfunk937 – 3
    Brian – 2
    Judith – 4
    Sarah H. – 1
    Jane Jones – 1

    Disqus is rapidly becoming unusable because it can be gamed by trolls.
    Bye.

    • FallsAngel Reply

      Actually, I count 9 of mine, including two with links, which would be normal for a board that doesn’t accept links (but also doesn’t tell you about it!).

      ETA: Make that 10.

      I’d say Bye to “Mum Central”.

    • Um, I’ve had 12 of 18 (so far) removed/deleted, not including this one.

      • Wow, I feel special. I’ve only had 4 deleted/moderated in the last few days.
        I wonder why I’m not seeing all the ‘sent to moderation’ posts from you and Falls which appear in the comments as something like ‘This post is awaiting moderation approval’.
        Disqus is inscrutable.

        BTW – Liked your recommend on the BN/”Activist Groups” topic and slapdown by our latest special tone snowflake. It was a good laugh.

        • I thought folks might appreciate it. I also thought it would be inappropriate to comment myself, so…recommended.

  38. angela coral eisenhauer Reply

    Little bit of photoshop in the baby. Hilarious. Measles is spread by the vaccinated. If a baby caught it, it is from the siblings getting the damn MMR shot. And, it is now KNOWN, that newborns are catching whooping cough from their fully vaccinated, symptomless siblings, who spread the damn thing for about 6-12 years (then the vaccine fails, and they catch the cough anyway). 50% MORE whooping cough NOW

  39. angela coral eisenhauer Reply

    Babies now catch whooping cough from vaccinated siblings. The siblings can be carriers on and off for 6-12 years. Whole damn vaccinated herd is silently infected now. As for vaccinating in pregnancy, that leads to a rise in microcephaly from 200 a year to 12,000 a year (BRAZIL, after Tdap used from May 2015) same rise as seen in USA, last few years, from 400 a year to 25,000 a year. Tdap in pregnancy, now introduced in UK< is showing miscarriages, too soon to notice the rise in microcephaly. If you have a baby, simply get the siblings tested, as they did in ES recently, brother was a vaccinated carrier, put baby on antibiotics, all was fine.

  40. For those commenting below, that, for one;

    “Measles is spread by the vaccinated.”

    Or..

    “That was also pre-running water. Back in the days when horses pooped in the streets and fresh produce was a basically a summer and fall luxury for most. Why are you trying give credit to vaccines?’

    Here you go.. and for example:

    “Queensland had a total of 31 cases of measles notified in the 1st quarter of 2009. Of these, 25 cases in a Sunshine Coast high school were linked to an imported case from India diagnosed on 12 January 2009, and were of genotype D4. None of the 25 cases were vaccinated at the time of exposure. In this case an outbreak occurred amongst a cohort of unvaccinated children despite the vaccination coverage in the overall geographical area being estimated at greater than 90% (assessed at 24 months of age for the birth cohort 1/10/05 to 30/9/060). This highlights the risk of imported disease resulting in a localised outbreak with the potential for sustained transmission when uniform MMR coverage is not achieved. An additional 6 cases were notified from Queensland during this period, of which three were imported and the remaining three were locally acquired, including the case linked to the imported Tasmanian case described above.”

    (Source: Australian Government | The Department of Health | “Measles Status in Australia, and Outbreaks in the First Quarter of 2009” )

  41. Jane Jones Reply

    You trollers should be ashamed of yourselves! If you’re vaccinated what do you have to fear-right? The lies and your distorted assumtions should be labeled as criminal! You all work for the same people therefore you got your buddies all jumping in with the the bad boys club! Pharma Trolls! If anyone has questions on vaccine safety-please do your own independent research on it–these trolls just out and out lie and distort information. –You cannot take back that shot once it is given–so at least delay and start searching for answers! Look around you-the evidence of vaccine harm is everywhere! Vaccine damage is real! …and not one of these trollers or their companies will be the ones to help you when the time comes. The risk is real—vaccine damage is real! ,,,and pregnant mothers—the shots they are now giving have NOT been safety studied in pregnant women–say NO-do the research! If they can harm your baby in utero then they can say “it was born that way!” Don’t be bullied into vaccines—DO YOUR RESEARCH!—–go for it trolls I won’t be responding to your lies and misinformation—I ask others also not to respond-it is just money in the bank to them!

    • You are so right Jane –

      Kinrix
      13 NONCLINICAL TOXICOLOGY
      13.1 Carcinogenesis, Mutagenesis, Impairment of Fertility
      KINRIX has not been evaluated for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or for impairment of fertility.

      Pediarix
      8.1 Pregnancy
      Pregnancy Category C
      Animal reproduction studies have not been conducted with PEDIARIX. It is not known whether PEDIARIX can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman or if PEDIARIX can affect reproduction capacity.

      Daptacel
      8 USE IN SPECIFIC POPULATIONS 8.1 Pregnancy
      Pregnancy Category C
      Animal reproduction studies have not been conducted with DAPTACEL vaccine. It is also not known whether DAPTACEL vaccine can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman or can affect reproductive capacity

      • FallsAngel Reply

        None of those vaccines are used in pregnant women. In fact, none are recommended for kids 7 and older.

        Judith fail!

      • Judith: “I recently had hair lead levels that were extremely high. I use Surya henna cream. They say it is tested for heavy metals but…..it is a very popular hair dye on i-herb.”

        Did you check to see if Surya henna cream has been tested for “carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or for impairment of fertility”, Judith?

        Any -ways..

        It’s been pointed out to you in the past.. numerous times.. that package inserts, and in particular the section under “Nonclinical Toxicology” has “little applicability to vaccines, since they have no carcinogenic, mutagenic, or fertility effect, given that the level of the vaccine’s ingredients’ dosage fall far below the lower threshold of the any dose-response test of these issues.”

        (Source: Skeptical Raptor | “Argument by Vaccine Package Inserts – they’re not infallible” )

        • Proponent follows every post that I put up – hoping to use something against me – it is like having a stalker. Should I be flattered or not….

    • FallsAngel Reply

      Oh, the old Anti-Vax 101 meme.

      Many of us care about kids other than our own. We care about the kids too young to be vaccinated and/or fully vaccinated. We care about those few who really do have valid medical exemptions to vaccines. We care about those few for whom the vaccines didn’t “take”. We care about the elderly whose immunity may be waning.

      There have been several studies of both flu vaccine and Tdap during pregnancy, and the vaccines have been found safe and efficacious.

  42. “Definition of what an “anti-vaxxer” is: Someone who questions vaccine safety but isn’t interested in the answer.”

    (H/t to VaccineTruthUK.)

  43. In response to the ‘hey, no one died.. no big deal’ argument.. welll..

    “In 2007 to 2011, of the 199 measles-related hospital admissions, 173 (87%) had measles recorded as the principal diagnosis and complications were recorded for 26 (15 %) admissions. Of these, 10 were coded as having pneumonia and 16 as complications other than pneumonia, otitis media, encephalitis and meningitis such as keratitis, keratoconjunctivitis and intestinal complications. No deaths were recorded in patients hospitalised with measles.”

    And unfortunately..

    “Between 2002 and 2011, the National Mortality Database recorded measles as the underlying cause of death in 1–4 cases.”

    (Source: Australian Government | Department of Health | “Australian vaccine preventable disease epidemiological review series: measles 2000–2011” )

      • According
        to the British Association for the Advancement of Science, childhood
        diseases decreased 90% between 1850 and 1940, paralleling
        improved sanitation and hygienic practices, well before mandatory
        vaccination programs. The Medical Sentinel recently reported, “from
        1911 to 1935, the four leading causes of childhood deaths from
        infectious diseases in the U.S. were diphtheria, pertussis, scarlet
        fever, and measles. However, by 1945 the combined death rates from
        these causes had declined by 95 percent, before the implementation
        of mass immunization programs.”35

  44. Citation needed. Be sure to compare like-for-like and don’t do the equivalent of comparing seatbelt-deaths to heaven rather than seatbelt-to-through-the-windshield deaths.

  45. Mike Stevens cries: “The Antivax trolls have gone crazy with their gang-flagging to try and censor responses here on Mum CentraL” (which has now gone into moderation).

    The gang flagging started when the Big Pharma Regulars (yourself included) arrived…against Teresa & Judith. You guys have even flagged me, like you always do cuz you “are scared of people knowing the fact about vaccines”. You, kfunk, FallsAngel, etc have actually bragged in posts about flagging other people for stupid stuff.

    If you don’t like being flagged, then stop doing it yourself.

    • Leslie: “You, kfunk, FallsAngel, On Its Merits, Jonathan Graham (who has Disqus
      moderator access) etc. have actually bragged in posts about flagging
      other people for stupid stuff.”

      If you were asked to provide proof of these assertions, Leslie (Jonathan having moderator access, bragging).. your response would be?

      Any -ways..

      Like Brian below, I’ve not flagged any posts in this discussion.

      I am of the opinion that it is better to leave the bare assertions, unsubstantiated claims left in place for all to see/read.

      And by countering said-same with solid evidence to the contrary.. doing so serves to highlight what seems to be at the root of the anti-vaxxers mindset.. their ‘beliefs’. Which, in my opinion.. play no useful role or part in these discussions.

    • FallsAngel Reply

      I rarely flag as I think it disrupts the flow. I’d rather downvote. I don’t know if I’ve flagged anything here. I do not flag for stupidity, only, as I said, in rare cases for outright defamation of someone’s character, and the like.

  46. From the article here..

    “The incubation period is about 10 days (range seven to 18 days) to the onset of prodromal symptoms and about 14 days to the appearance of the rash.”

    This is important.

    ‘Cause..

    It highlights the fact that someone who has contracted measles.. could be out and about in public before the visible signs of measles appear and a confirmed diagnosis has been pronounced.

    Communicable period. A person with measles can spread the virus to others for about eight days, starting four days before the rash appears and ending when the rash has been present for four days.”

    (Source: Mayo Clinic | Measles Symptoms )

  47. FallsAngel Reply

    Jeez, Louise, Mum Central! Get your mods in gear. This constant gang-flagging is making this board very un-userfriendly, and will work against your policy which I shall quote here: “We’re passionate about connecting mums of all ages across our online network. From parenting articles to educational stories, recipes, giveaways and more, don’t be shy, you’re all welcome! We are also on the lookout for regular contributors or readers wishing to share their real life stories so contact us today!”

    Bad for your advertising revenues, Mum Central, to lose control like this.